Titus Livius (Livy), Ab urbe condita, Benjamin Oliver Foster, Ph.D. (Editor), Frank Gardener Moore (Editor), Evan T. Sage, Ph.D. (Editor), Alfred C. Schlesinger, Ph.D. (Editor), 3.39

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[1]

But their obedience in coming to the senate-house was greater, we are told, than their submissiveness in the expression of their views.

[2] It is related that Lucius Valerius Potitus, after Appius Claudius had proposed his motion and before the senators were called upon in order for their opinions, demanded leave to speak on the state of the nation; and when the decemvirs tried with threats to prevent his doing so, stirred up a violent commotion by declaring that he would go before the plebs.

[3] With equal spirit, it is said, did Marcus Horatius Barbatus enter the dispute, calling them ten Tarquinii, and warning them that the Valerii and the Horatii had been leaders in the expulsion of the kings. ¹

[4] Nor was it the name, said he, which had then disgusted men, since by this name Jupiter was duly called; and Romulus, the founder of the City; and the successive kings; and it had even been retained for religious rites as a solemn title. ²

[5] No, it was the pride and violence of the king which men had hated in those days; and if these qualities had then been intolerable in a king, or the son of a king, who would endure them in so many private citizens?

[6] Let them beware lest by denying men freedom of speech in the Curia they should set them a-talking outside the Curia as well. He could not see, he continued, how, as a private citizen, he was less entitled to assemble the people for a speech ³ than they were to convene the senate.

[7] When they liked they might learn by making the experiment how much stronger indignation was in the vindication of a man's own liberty than was ambition in defence of unjust power.

[8] The decemvirs talked of a Sabine war, as if any war were more important to the Roman People than war with those who, though they had been appointed to propose statutes, had left no law in the state; who had done away with elections, with annual magistracies, with the succession of new governors —the only means of equalizing liberty; —and who, though private citizens, had the rods and the power of kings.

[9] Following the expulsion of the kings there had been patrician magistrates; later, after the secession of the plebs, plebeian magistrates had been elected. Of what party, he asked, were they? Of the popular party? Pray what had they done through the agency of the people? Of the aristocratic party? When they had held no meeting of the senate for close upon a year, and were now so conducting it as to suppress discussion of the national welfare?

[10] Let them not trust too much to other men's fears; the things men were enduring now seemed more grievous to them than the things they feared.

Ab urbe condita. Titus Livius (Livy). Benjamin Oliver Foster, Ph.D. (Editor), Frank Gardener Moore (Editor), Evan T. Sage, Ph.D. (Editor), Alfred C. Schlesinger, Ph.D. (Editor). Medford, MA. .

Sponsored by Perseus Project, Tufts University.

Funding provided by The National Endowment for the Humanities.

Current edition Perseus

History of Rome (English) (Foster, Benjamin Oliver; Moore, Frank Gardener; Sage, Evan T.; Schlesinger, Alfred C., translators. Cambridge, Mass.; London: Harvard University Press; William Heinemann, Ltd., 1919-1959. (Loeb Classical Library))

Editions (3)

Ab urbe condita Perseus (Pars I-IV, Libri I-XL. Editio Stereotypica. Weissenborn, Wilhelm; Mueller, Moritz, editors. Leipzig: Teubner, 1884-1911.) — 3.39 focus

[1] sed magis oboedienter ventum in curiam esse quam obnoxie dictas sententias accepimus.

[2] L. Valerium Potitum proditum memoriae est post relationem Ap. Claudii, priusquam ordine sententiae rogarentur, postulando, ut de re publica liceret dicere, prohibentibus minaciter decemviris proditurum se ad plebem denuntiantem tumultum excivisse.

[3] nec minus ferociter M. Horatium Barbatum isse in certamen decem Tarquinios appellantem admonentemque Valeriis et Horatiis ducibus pulsos reges.

[4] nec nominis homines tum pertaesum esse, quippe quo Iovem appellari fas sit, quo Romulum, conditorem urbis, deincepsque reges, quod sacris etiam ut sollemne retentum sit;

[5] superbiam violentiamque tur tum perosos regis. quae si in rege tum * eodem aut in filio regis ferenda non fuerint, quem laturum in tot privatis?

[6] viderent, ne vetando in curia libere homines loqui extra curiam etiam moverent vocem. neque se videre, qui sibi minus privato ad contionem populum vocare quam illis senatum cogere liceat.

[7] ubi vellent, experirentur, quanto fortior dolor in libertate sua vindicanda quam cupiditas in iniusta dominatione esset.

[8] de bello Sabino eos referre, tamquam maius ullum populo Romano bellum sit quam cum iis, qui legum ferendarum causa creati nihil iuris in civitate reliquerint, qui comitia, qui annuos magistratus, qui vicissitudinem imperitandi, quod unum exaequandae sit libertatis, sustulerint, qui privati fasces et regium imperium habeant.

[9] fuisse regibus exactis patricios magistratus, creatos postea post secessionem plebis plebeios: cuius illi partis essent, rogitare. populares? quid enim eos per populum egisse? optimates? qui anno iam prope senatum non habuerint, nunc ita habeant, at de re publica loqui prohibeant?

[10] ne nimium in metu alieno spei ponerent; graviora quae patiantur videri iam hominibus, quam quae metuant.

Ab urbe condita Perseus (Conway, Robert Seymour; Walters, Charles Flamstead; Johnson, Stephen Keymer, editors. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1914-1935. (Oxford Classical Texts)) — 3.39 focus

[1]

sed magis oboedienter ventum in curiam ¹ quam obnoxie dictas sententias accepimus.

[2] L. Valerium Potitum proditum memoriae est post relationem Ap. Claudi, priusquam ordine sententiae rogarentur, postulando ut de re publica liceret dicere, prohibentibus minaciter decemviris proditurum se ad plebem denuntiantem tumultum excivisse.

[3] nec minus ferociter M. Horatium Barbatum isse in certamen, decem Tarquinios appellantem admonentemque Valeriis et Horatiis ducibus pulsos reges.

[4] nec nominis homines tum pertaesum esse, quippe quo Iovem appellari fas sit, quo Romulum, conditorem urbis, deincepsque reges, ² quod sacris etiam ut sollemne retentum sit: superbiam violentiamque tum perosos regis.

[5] quae si in rege tum ³ aut in filio regis ferenda non fuerint, quem eadem ⁴ laturum in tot privatis?

[6] viderent ne vetando in curia libere homines loqui extra curiam etiam moverent vocem; neque se videre qui ⁵ sibi minus privato ad contionem populum vocare quam illis senatum cogere liceat.

[7] ubi vellent experirentur quanto fortior dolor in libertate ⁶ sua vindicanda quam cupiditas in iniusta dominatione esset.

[8] de bello Sabino eos referre, tamquam maius ullum populo Romano bellum sit quam cum iis ⁷ qui legum ferendarum causa creati nihil iuris in civitate reliquerint, qui comitia, qui annuos magistratus, qui vicissitudinem imperitandi, quod unum exaequandae sit libertatis, sustulerint; qui privati fasces et regium imperium habeant.

[9] fuisse regibus exactis patricios magistratus, creatos postea post secessionem plebis plebeios; cuius illi partis essent, rogitare. populares ? Quid enim eos per populum egisse egiss ? optimates ? Qui anno iam prope senatum non habuerint, nunc ⁸ ita habeant, ut de re publica loqui prohibeant?

[10] ne nimium in metu alieno spei ponerent; graviora quae patiantur videri iam hominibus quam quae metuant.

Ab urbe condita Perseus (Livy in Fourteen Volumes. Foster, Benjamin Oliver; Moore, Frank Gardener; Schlesinger, Alfred C., editors. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press; London: William Heinemann, Ltd., 1919-1959 (printing).) — 3.39 focus

[1]

sed magis oboedienter ventum in curiam ¹ quam obnoxie dictas sententias accepimus.

[3] nec minus ferociter M. Horatium Barbatum isse in certamen, decem Tarquinios appellantem admonentemque Valeriis et Horatiis ducibus pulsos reges.

[5] quae si in rege tum ³ aut in filio regis ferenda non fuerint, quem eadem ⁴ laturum in tot privatis?

[6] viderent ne vetando in curia libere homines loqui extra curiam etiam moverent vocem; neque se videre qui ⁵ sibi minus privato ad contionem populum vocare quam illis senatum cogere liceat.

[7] ubi vellent experirentur quanto fortior dolor in libertate ⁶ sua vindicanda quam cupiditas in iniusta dominatione esset.

[10] ne nimium in metu alieno spei ponerent; graviora quae patiantur videri iam hominibus quam quae metuant.

Translations (2)

History of Rome Perseus (Spillan, D.; Edmonds, Cyrus; McDevitte, William A., translators. London: Henry G. Bohn, 1849-1868. (Bohn's Classical Library)) — 3.39 focus

[1]

But they showed more obedience in coming into the senate than servility in the sentiments expressed by them, as we have learned.

[2] It is recorded that, after Appius's stating the subject of the meeting, and before the opinions were demanded in order, Lucius Valerius Potitus excited a commotion, by demanding permission to express his sentiments concerning the state, and when the decemvirs were prohibiting him with threats, declaring that he would present himself before the people.

[3] (We have also heard) that Marcus Horatius Barbatus entered the lists with no less boldness, calling them

ten Tarquins,

and reminding them,

that under the leadership of the Valerii and Horatii ¹ the kings had been expelled. Nor was it of the mere name that men were then tired, it being that by which it was usual to style Jupiter, and by which Romulus, the founder of the city, and his successors were also styled;

[4]

a name too which has been retained even in the ceremonies of religion, as a solemn one; that it was the tyranny and arrogance of a king

[5]

they then detested, which if they were not to be tolerated in one who was both a king himself and the son of a king, who was to tolerate it in so many private citizens? that they should beware lest, by preventing persons from speaking their sentiments freely in the senate, they might oblige them to raise their

[6]

voice outside the senate-house. Nor could he see how it was less allowable for him, a private citizen, to summon the people to an assembly, than for them to convene the senate. They might try, whenever they pleased, how much more determined a sense of wrong will be found to be in vindicating one's own liberty, than ambition in (vindicating) usurped domination. That they proposed the question concerning the Sabine war, as

[7]

if the Roman people had any more important war on hand, than that against those who, having been elected for the purpose of framing laws, had left no law in the state; who had abolished elections, annual magistrates, the regular change of rulers, which was the only means

[8]

of equalizing liberty; who, though private citizens, still possess the fasces and regal dominion. That on the expulsion of the kings, patrician magistrates were ap- pointed, and subsequently, after the secession of the people, plebeian magistrates. To which party, he asked, did they belong? To the popular party? What had they ever done with the concurrence of the people? were they nobles? who for now nearly an entire

[9]

year have not held a meeting of the senate; and then hold one in such a manner, that they actually prevent numbers from expressing their sentiments regarding the commonwealth; that they should not place too much hope in the fears of others; that the grievances which they are suffering now appear to men more oppressive than any they may have to apprehend.

History of Rome Perseus (Volumes 1-2. Roberts, Canon, Rev, translator. London, New York: J. M. Dent and Sons; E. P. Dutton and Co., 1912.) — 3.39 focus

[1] This obedience, however, was shown more by their coming to the Senate-house than by any servility in the sentiments which we understand that they expressed.

[2] It is recorded that after the question of the war had been introduced by Appius Claudius, and before the formal discussion began,¹ L. Valerius Potitus created a scene by demanding that he should be allowed to speak on the political question, and on the decemvirs forbidding him in threatening tones to do so, he declared that he would present himself before the people.

[3] Marcus Horatius Barbatus showed himself an equally determined opponent, called the decemvirs “ten Tarquins,” and reminded them that it was under the leadership of the Valerii and the Horatii that monarchy had been expelled from Rome .

[4] It was not the name of “king” that men had now grown weary of, for it was the proper title of Jupiter , Romulus the founder of the City and his successors were called “kings,” and the name was still retained for religious purposes.

[5] It was the tyranny and violence of kings that men detested. If these were insupportable in a king or a king's son, who would endure them in ten private citizens?

[6] They should see to it that they did not, by forbidding freedom of speech in the House, compel them to speak outside its walls. He could not see how it was less permissible for him as a private citizen to convene an Assembly of the people than for them to summon the senate.

[7] They might find out whenever they chose how much more powerful a sense of wrong is to vindicate liberty than greedy ambition is to support tyranny.

[8] They were bringing up the question of the Sabine war as if the Roman people had any more serious war to wage than one against men who, appointed to draw up laws, left no vestige of law or justice in the State; who had abolished the elections, the annual magistrates, the regular succession of rulers, which formed the sole guarantee of equal liberty for all; who, though simple citizens, still retained the fasces and the power of despotic monarchs.

[9] After the expulsion of the kings, the magistrates were patricians; after the secession of the plebs, plebeian magistrates were appointed. “What party did these men belong to?”he asked. “The popular party? Why, what have they ever done in conjunction with the people? The nobility? What! these men, who have not held a meeting of the senate for nearly a year, and now that they are holding one, forbid any speaking on the political situation?

[10] Do not place too much reliance on the fears of others. The ills that men are actually suffering from seem to them much more grievous than any they may fear in the future.”

Notes on the current edition

Ab Urbe Condita With An English Translation, books 1-10, 21-45, with periochae 11-20

1. Livy did not mention Horatius in his account of the expulsion of the kings, but he is named by Dion. Hal. IV. lxxxv. Here Livy and Dion. Hal. (XI. v.), are in agreement, and are perhaps following the account of Licinius Macer.

2. See II. ii. 1.

3. B.C. 449

Titus Livius (Livy) Ab urbe condita 3.39

Benjamin Oliver Foster, Ph.D. (Editor), Frank Gardener Moore (Editor), Evan T. Sage, Ph.D. (Editor), Alfred C. Schlesinger, Ph.D. (Editor)

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