James Adam, Commentary on Plato, Republic, ed. James Adam, 4.429E

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[429E] δευσοποιὸν ‐‐ βαφέν . δευσοποιόν· ἔμμονον καὶ δυσαπόπλυτον (Timaeus Lex. s. v. δευσοποιόν, where Ruhnken illustrates the word very fully). The point of course is that such προπαρασκευή rendered the colour proof against washing. δευσοποιός, ἀνέκπλυτος, and μόνιμος were constantly used in connexion with dyeing: see Blümner l. c. I p. 221 notes The words τὸ βαφέν are bracketed by Herwerden; but ὃ ἄν is not ‘quod,’ but ‘si quid’ (Schneider).

ῥυμμάτων . ῥύμματα is the generic word for detergents of any kind (Blümner Privatalt. p. 214 note 1): cf. παντὸς ἄλλου ῥύμματος 430 B.

ἐάν τε καὶ ταῦτα . ταῦτα is τὰ λευκά i.e. white substances: cf. τῶν λευκῶν in D above. Even white wool, unless specially prepared, will not retain the dye when it is dipped: much less other colours. This is the force of καί in καὶ ταῦτα. The words ἄλλα χρώματα refer to the colour of the wool which is dipped, not to the colour of the dye, as Herwerden supposes when he calls for τοῦτο: cf. note on ὥστ’ εἶναι in D above.

ἔκπλυτα καὶ γελοῖα : a sort of hendiadys: cf. VIII 558 A θεσπεσία καὶ ἡδεῖα. Stallbaum's suggestion ἀγελαῖα for γελοῖα is itself γελοιότερον. For τοιοῦτον cf. III 388 D note

Commentary on Plato, Republic. James Adam. ed. James Adam. Cambridge. 1926-1929.

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Current edition Perseus

Commentary on Plato, Republic (English) (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.)

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Πολιτεία Perseus (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.) — 4.429 focus

[429]
τῷ σμικροτάτῳ ἄρα ἔθνει καὶ μέρει ἑαυτῆς καὶ τῇ ἐν τούτῳ ἐπιστήμῃ, τῷ προεστῶτι καὶ ἄρχοντι, ὅλη σοφὴ ἂν εἴη κατὰ φύσιν οἰκισθεῖσα πόλις· καὶ τοῦτο, ὡς ἔοικε, φύσει 429a ὀλίγιστον γίγνεται γένος, ᾧ προσήκει ταύτης τῆς ἐπιστήμης μεταλαγχάνειν ἣν μόνην δεῖ τῶν ἄλλων ἐπιστημῶν σοφίαν καλεῖσθαι.
ἀληθέστατα, ἔφη, λέγεις.
τοῦτο μὲν δὴ ἓν τῶν τεττάρων οὐκ οἶδα ὅντινα τρόπον ηὑρήκαμεν, αὐτό τε καὶ ὅπου τῆς πόλεως ἵδρυται.
ἐμοὶ γοῦν δοκεῖ, ἔφη, ἀποχρώντως ηὑρῆσθαι.
ἀλλὰ μὴν ἀνδρεία γε αὐτή τε καὶ ἐν ᾧ κεῖται τῆς πόλεως, διʼ ὃ τοιαύτη κλητέα ἡ πόλις, οὐ πάνυ χαλεπὸν ἰδεῖν.
πῶς δή; 429b
τίς ἄν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, εἰς ἄλλο τι ἀποβλέψας ἢ δειλὴν ἢ ἀνδρείαν πόλιν εἴποι ἀλλʼ ἢ εἰς τοῦτο τὸ μέρος ὃ προπολεμεῖ τε καὶ στρατεύεται ὑπὲρ αὐτῆς;
οὐδʼ ἂν εἷς, ἔφη, εἰς ἄλλο τι.
οὐ γὰρ οἶμαι, εἶπον, οἵ γε ἄλλοι ἐν αὐτῇ ἢ δειλοὶ ἢ ἀνδρεῖοι ὄντες κύριοι ἂν εἶεν ἢ τοίαν αὐτὴν εἶναι ἢ τοίαν.
οὐ γάρ.
καὶ ἀνδρεία ἄρα πόλις μέρει τινὶ ἑαυτῆς ἐστι, διὰ τὸ ἐν ἐκείνῳ ἔχειν δύναμιν τοιαύτην ἣ διὰ παντὸς σώσει τὴν περὶ 429c τῶν δεινῶν δόξαν, ταῦτά τε αὐτὰ εἶναι καὶ τοιαῦτα, ἅ τε καὶ οἷα ὁ νομοθέτης παρήγγελλεν ἐν τῇ παιδείᾳ. ἢ οὐ τοῦτο ἀνδρείαν καλεῖς;
οὐ πάνυ, ἔφη, ἔμαθον ὃ εἶπες, ἀλλʼ αὖθις εἰπέ.
σωτηρίαν ἔγωγʼ, εἶπον, λέγω τινὰ εἶναι τὴν ἀνδρείαν.
ποίαν δὴ σωτηρίαν;
τὴν τῆς δόξης τῆς ὑπὸ νόμου διὰ τῆς παιδείας γεγονυίας περὶ τῶν δεινῶν ἅ τέ ἐστι καὶ οἷα· διὰ παντὸς δὲ ἔλεγον αὐτῆς σωτηρίαν τὸ ἔν τε λύπαις ὄντα διασῴζεσθαι αὐτὴν καὶ ἐν 429d ἡδοναῖς καὶ ἐν ἐπιθυμίαις καὶ ἐν φόβοις καὶ μὴ ἐκβάλλειν. ᾧ δέ μοι δοκεῖ ὅμοιον εἶναι ἐθέλω ἀπεικάσαι, εἰ βούλει.
ἀλλὰ βούλομαι.
οὐκοῦν οἶσθα, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὅτι οἱ βαφῆς, ἐπειδὰν βουληθῶσι βάψαι ἔρια ὥστʼ εἶναι ἁλουργά, πρῶτον μὲν ἐκλέγονται ἐκ τοσούτων χρωμάτων μίαν φύσιν τὴν τῶν λευκῶν, ἔπειτα προπαρασκευάζουσιν, οὐκ ὀλίγῃ παρασκευῇ θεραπεύσαντες ὅπως δέξεται ὅτι μάλιστα τὸ ἄνθος, καὶ οὕτω δὴ βάπτουσι. 429e καὶ ὃ μὲν ἂν τούτῳ τῷ τρόπῳ βαφῇ, δευσοποιὸν γίγνεται τὸ βαφέν, καὶ ἡ πλύσις οὔτʼ ἄνευ ῥυμμάτων οὔτε μετὰ ῥυμμάτων δύναται αὐτῶν τὸ ἄνθος ἀφαιρεῖσθαι· ἃ δʼ ἂν μή, οἶσθα οἷα δὴ γίγνεται, ἐάντέ τις ἄλλα χρώματα βάπτῃ ἐάντε καὶ ταῦτα μὴ προθεραπεύσας.
οἶδα, ἔφη, ὅτι καὶ ἔκπλυτα καὶ γελοῖα.

Translations (1)

Republic Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).) — 4.429 focus

[429] Then it is by virtue of its smallest class and minutest part of itself, and the wisdom that resides therein, in the part which takes the lead and rules, that a city established on principles of nature would be wise as a whole. And as it appears 429a these are by nature the fewest, the class to which it pertains to partake of the knowledge which alone of all forms of knowledge deserves the name of wisdom. Most true, he said. This one of our four, then, we have, I know not how, discovered, the thing itself and its place in the state. I certainly think, said he, that it has been discovered sufficiently.
But again there is no difficulty in seeing bravery itself and the part of the city in which it resides for which the city is called brave.¹ How so? Who, said I, 429b in calling a city cowardly or brave would fix his eyes on any other part of it than that which defends it and wages war in its behalf? No one at all, he said. For the reason, I take it, said I, that the cowardice or the bravery² of the other inhabitants does not determine for it the one quality or the other.³ It does not. Bravery too, then, belongs to a city by virtue of a part of itself owing to its possession in that part of a quality that under all conditions will preserve the conviction 429c that things to be feared are precisely those which and such as the lawgiver⁴ inculcated in their education. Is not that what you call bravery? I don’t altogether understand⁵ what you said, he replied; but say it again. A kind of conservation, I said, is what I mean by bravery. What sort of a conservation⁶? The conservation of the conviction which the law has created by education about fearful things—what and what sort of things are to be feared. And by the phrase under all conditions⁷ I mean that the brave man preserves it both in pain 429d and pleasures and in desires and fears and does not expel⁸ it from his soul. And I may illustrate it by a similitude⁹ if you please. I do. You are aware that dyers when they wish to dye wool so as to hold the purple hue begin by selecting from the many colors there be the one nature of the white and then give it a careful preparatory treatment so that it will take the hue in the best way, and after the treatment,¹⁰ then and then only, dip it in the dye. 429e And things that are dyed by this process become fast-colored¹¹ and washing either with or without lyes cannot take away the sheen of their hues. But otherwise you know what happens to them, whether¹² anyone dips other colors or even these without the preparatory treatment. I know, he said, that they present a ridiculous and washed-out appearance.

James Adam Commentary on Plato, Republic 4.429E

ed. James Adam

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