James Adam, Commentary on Plato, Protagoras, ed. James Adam, ed. Adela Marion Adam, XVI.327D

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[327D] 31. μήτε—μήτε—μήτε—μηδέ. μηδέintroduces the climax: see note on οὔτε—οὐδέ γε in Apol. 19D and Cope on Ar. Rhet. A, 4. 4. Presently ἀλλ’ εἶεν is used rather than ἀλλ’ εἰσί (in spite of ἐστίν in l. 31) because the hypothetical nature of the case is becoming more prominent. For the passage of a relative clause into a main clause ( οἵ is not to be repeated after ἀλλά ) see on 313A

33. ἀλλ’ εἶεν ἄγριοί τινες . It appears not only from Athenaeus (v. 218D), but from Suidas and others, that the play in question was called Ἄγριοι . The few fragments of it which remain (see Kock's Comicorum Atticorum Fragmenta, I, 146-50) give us no indication of the plot or treatment. The probability is that the Ἄγριοι formed the chorus (cf. the names Νεφέλαι, Βάτραχοι etc.), ‘ad quos’—as we should infer from the words of Plato— ‘Athenienses quidam, pauci sine dubio, vitae civilis in sua urbe pertaesi ( μισάνθρωποι ) sicut Pithetaerus et Euelpides, accedebant imprudenter sperantes se inter homines immanes meliorem iustioremque quam in civitate sua vitam inventuros esse’ (Kock). Plato was perhaps thinking of the same play again in Rep. VI. 496D ὥσπερ εἰς θηρία ἄνθρωπος ἐμπεσών, οὔτε ξυναδικεῖν ἐθέλων οὔτε ἱκανὸς ὢν εἶς πᾶσιν ἀγρίοις ἀντέχειν .

οἷοί περ οὓς πέρυσιν : so BT, and there is no sufficient reason for altering the text to οἵους πέρυσιν (with Sauppe, after Athenaeus V. 218D) or οἵους περ πέρυσιν with Schanz. Plato does not always avail himself of the liberty of attraction: a parallel is quoted from Crat. 432E ἵνα κομιδῇ ᾖ τοιοῦτον οἷόν περ οὗ ὄνομά ἐστιν.

34. πέρυσιν . Athenaeus, V. 218D ἐδιδάχθησαν δὲ οἱ Ἄγριοι ἐπ’ Ἀριστίωνος ἄρχοντος , i.e. Ol. 89 4 = 421/420 B.C. For the bearing of the date of the Ἄγριοι on the question when the dialogue of the Protagoras is assumed to have taken place see Introduction, p. xxxiii.

Φερεκράτης . The fragments of Pherecrates—a poet of the old comedy who gained his first victory in 438 B.C.—are given in Kock's Comicorum Atticorum Fragmenta, I, 145-209.

ἐδίδαξεν ἐπὶ Ληναίῳ . The Λήναιον (also called λίμναι and τέμενος τοῦ Διονύσου ) was an enclosure sacred to Dionysus on the south-east slope of the Acropolis. Cf. Photius s.v. Λήναιον : περίβολος μέγας Ἀθήνησιν, ἐν ᾧ τοὺς ἀγῶνας ἦγον, πρὸ τοῦ τὸ θέατρον οἰκοδομηθῆναι, ὀνομάζοντες ἐπὶ Ληναίῳ . The phrase ‘at Lenaeum’ seems to have survived even after all plays were given in the Dionysiac theatre, as by this time they were, and to have been understood as equivalent to ‘at the Lenaean festival’ (cf. Ar. Ach. 504 οὑπὶ Ληναίῳ τ’ ἀγών), for which the expressions ἐν Ληναίοις and ( ἐδιδάχθη ) εἰς Λήναια are more usual in the didascaliae (see Müller's Bühnenalterthümer, p. 316, n. 3). The Lenaea took place in the month Gamelion.

36. ὥσπερ οἱ ἐν ἐκείνῳ τῷ χορῷ , sc. γενόμενοι. γίγνεσθαι ἐν is ‘to come to be in or among’, ‘to fall among’. ἐν τῷ προθύρῳ ἐγενόμεθα of 314C is the same idiom.

μισάνθρωποι . So the MSS. The various suggested emendations ( ἡμιάνθρωποι Heinrich, μιξάνθρωποι Jacobs, μεσάνθρωποι Lehrs) proceed on the supposition that the word is an epithet of the ἄγριοι , which is most improbable: ‘alii sunt ἄγριοι , alii μισάνθρωποι , neque in illa sermonis iunctura’ (sc. if we regard the ὥσπερ clause as explaining τοῖς τοιούτοις ) ‘scribendum ὥσπερ sed οἷοί περ fuit’ (Heindorf).

37. Εὐρυβάτῳ καὶ Φρυνώνδᾳ . Two proverbial scoundrels of real life: see Suidas s.vv. Εὐρύβατος πονηρός, ἀπὸ τοῦ ρεμφθέντος ὑρὸ Κποίσου ἐρὶ ξενολογίαν μετὰ χπημάτων, ὥς φησιν Ἔφοπος, εἶτα μεταβαλομένου ρπὸς Κῦπον· ἦν δὲ Ἐφέσιος κτλ. Φπυνώνδας τῶν ἐρὶ ρονηπίᾳ διαβεβοημένων, ὃς ξένος ὢν κατὰ τὰ Ρελοροννησιακὰ διέτπιβεν Ἀθήνησιν·—ἐκ τούτου τοὺς ρονηποὺς Φρυνώνδας καλοῦσι . They are frequently mentioned in Greek literature: see Blaydes on Ar. Thesm. 861 . Blaydes remarks that ‐ώνδας is a Boeotian termination: cf. Ἐπαμεινώνδας, Χαρώνδας and the like.

Commentary on Plato, Protagoras. James Adam. ed. James Adam, ed. Adela Marion Adam. Cambridge. 1921.

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Current edition Perseus

Commentary on Plato, Protagoras (English) (Plato. Platonis Protagoras. Adam, James; Adam, Adela Marion, editors. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1921.)

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Πρωταγόρας Perseus (Platonis Opera, Tomus III: Tetralogia V-VII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1903.) — 327 focus

[327]

ΣΩ.

διὰ τί οὖν τῶν ἀγαθῶν πατέρων πολλοὶ ὑεῖς φαῦλοι γίγνονται; τοῦτο αὖ μάθε· οὐδὲν γὰρ θαυμαστόν, εἴπερ ἀληθῆ ἐγὼ ἐν τοῖς ἔμπροσθεν ἔλεγον, ὅτι τούτου τοῦ πράγματος, 327 327a τῆς ἀρετῆς, εἰ μέλλει πόλις εἶναι, οὐδένα δεῖ ἰδιωτεύειν. εἰ γὰρ δὴ ὃ λέγω οὕτως ἔχει—ἔχει δὲ μάλιστα πάντων οὕτως—ἐνθυμήθητι ἄλλο τῶν ἐπιτηδευμάτων ὁτιοῦν καὶ μαθημάτων προελόμενος. εἰ μὴ οἷόν τʼ ἦν πόλιν εἶναι εἰ μὴ πάντες αὐληταὶ ἦμεν ὁποῖός τις ἐδύνατο ἕκαστος, καὶ τοῦτο καὶ ἰδίᾳ καὶ δημοσίᾳ πᾶς πάντα καὶ ἐδίδασκε καὶ ἐπέπληττε τὸν μὴ καλῶς αὐλοῦντα, καὶ μὴ ἐφθόνει τούτου, ὥσπερ νῦν τῶν δικαίων καὶ τῶν νομίμων οὐδεὶς φθονεῖ οὐδʼ 327b ἀποκρύπτεται ὥσπερ τῶν ἄλλων τεχνημάτων—λυσιτελεῖ γὰρ οἶμαι ἡμῖν ἡ ἀλλήλων δικαιοσύνη καὶ ἀρετή· διὰ ταῦτα πᾶς παντὶ προθύμως λέγει καὶ διδάσκει καὶ τὰ δίκαια καὶ τὰ νόμιμα—εἰ οὖν οὕτω καὶ ἐν αὐλήσει πᾶσαν προθυμίαν καὶ ἀφθονίαν εἴχομεν ἀλλήλους διδάσκειν, οἴει ἄν τι, ἔφη, μᾶλλον, ὦ Σώκρατες, τῶν ἀγαθῶν αὐλητῶν ἀγαθοὺς αὐλητὰς τοὺς ὑεῖς γίγνεσθαι ἢ τῶν φαύλων; οἶμαι μὲν οὔ, ἀλλὰ ὅτου ἔτυχεν ὁ ὑὸς εὐφυέστατος γενόμενος εἰς αὔλησιν, οὗτος 327c ἂν ἐλλόγιμος ηὐξήθη, ὅτου δὲ ἀφυής, ἀκλεής· καὶ πολλάκις μὲν ἀγαθοῦ αὐλητοῦ φαῦλος ἂν ἀπέβη, πολλάκις δʼ ἂν φαύλου ἀγαθός· ἀλλʼ οὖν αὐληταί γʼ ἂν πάντες ἦσαν ἱκανοὶ ὡς πρὸς τοὺς ἰδιώτας καὶ μηδὲν αὐλήσεως ἐπαΐοντας. οὕτως οἴου καὶ νῦν, ὅστις σοι ἀδικώτατος φαίνεται ἄνθρωπος τῶν ἐν νόμοις καὶ ἀνθρώποις τεθραμμένων, δίκαιον αὐτὸν εἶναι καὶ δημιουργὸν τούτου τοῦ πράγματος, εἰ δέοι αὐτὸν κρίνεσθαι 327d πρὸς ἀνθρώπους οἷς μήτε παιδεία ἐστὶν μήτε δικαστήρια μήτε νόμοι μηδὲ ἀνάγκη μηδεμία διὰ παντὸς ἀναγκάζουσα ἀρετῆς ἐπιμελεῖσθαι, ἀλλʼ εἶεν ἄγριοί τινες οἷοίπερ οὓς πέρυσιν Φερεκράτης ὁ ποιητὴς ἐδίδαξεν ἐπὶ Ληναίῳ. ἦ σφόδρα ἐν τοῖς τοιούτοις ἀνθρώποις γενόμενος, ὥσπερ οἱ ἐν ἐκείνῳ τῷ χορῷ μισάνθρωποι, ἀγαπήσαις ἂν εἰ ἐντύχοις Εὐρυβάτῳ καὶ Φρυνώνδᾳ, καὶ ἀνολοφύραιʼ ἂν ποθῶν τὴν τῶν ἐνθάδε ἀνθρώπων 327e πονηρίαν. νῦν δὲ τρυφᾷς, ὦ Σώκρατες, διότι πάντες διδάσκαλοί εἰσιν ἀρετῆς καθʼ ὅσον δύνανται ἕκαστος, καὶ οὐδείς σοι φαίνεται·

Translations (1)

Protagoras Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 2. Lamb, W.R.M., translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1924 (printing).) — 327 focus

Soc.

Then why is it that many sons of good fathers turn out so meanly? Let me explain this also: it is no wonder, granted that I was right in stating just now that no one, 327a if we are to have a city, must be a mere layman in this affair of virtue. For if what I say is the case—and it is supremely true—reflect on the nature of any other pursuit or study that you choose to mention. Suppose that there could be no state unless we were all flute-players, in such sort as each was able, and suppose that everyone were giving his neighbor both private and public lessons in the art, and rebuked him too, if he failed to do it well, without grudging him the trouble—even as no one now thinks of grudging 327b or reserving his skill in what is just and lawful as he does in other expert knowledge; for our neighbors’ justice and virtue, I take it, is to our advantage, and consequently we all tell and teach one another what is just and lawful—well, if we made the same zealous and ungrudging efforts to instruct each other in flute-playing, do you think, Socrates, that the good flute-players would be more likely than the bad to have sons who were good flute-players? I do not think they would: 327c no, wherever the son had happened to be born with a nature most apt for flute-playing, he would be found to have advanced to distinction, and where unapt, to obscurity. Often the son of a good player would turn out a bad one, and often of a bad, a good. But, at any rate, all would be capable players as compared with ordinary persons who had no inkling of the art. Likewise in the present case you must regard any man who appears to you the most unjust person ever reared among human laws and society as a just man and 327d a craftsman of justice, if he had to stand comparison with people who lacked education and law courts and laws and any constant compulsion to the pursuit of virtue, but were a kind of wild folk such as Pherecrates the poet brought on the scene at last year’s Lenaeum.¹ Sure enough, if you found yourself among such people, as did the misanthropes among his chorus, you would be very glad to meet with Eurybatus and Phrynondas,² 327e and would bewail yourself with longing for the wickedness of the people here. Instead of that you give yourself dainty airs, Socrates, because everyone is a teacher of virtue to the extent of his powers, and you think there is no teacher. Why, you might as well ask who is a teacher of Greek;

James Adam Commentary on Plato, Protagoras XVI.327D

ed. James Adam, ed. Adela Marion Adam

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