Aristotle Poetics 15.8

Theodore Alois Buckley (Translator)

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but we do not admit the introduction of any thing absurd in the incidents 8, but if it is introduced it must be external to the tragedy; as in the " Oedipus" of Sophocles. 1

Poetics. Aristotle. Theodore Alois Buckley (Translator). London. 1857.

Current edition Experimental

The Poetic of Aristotle (Theodore Alois Buckley) (OCR draft) (English) (Theodore Alois Buckley's English translation, first published in 1850 and represented from the Henry G. Bohn 1857 printing; corrected against a second OCR and aligned to the Kassel reference passage sequence.)

Provisional text from uncorrected OCR; expect errors.

Editions (4)
Περὶ ποιητικῆς (OCR draft) (Aristotle, Poetics. Immanuel Bekker, editor, Aristotelis Opera, volume 2. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1837.) — 15 focus
Περὶ ποιητικῆς (OCR draft) Perseus (Aristotle, De arte poetica liber. Rudolf Kassel, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1965. Reference edition for passage alignment.) — 15 focus
Poetics, Greek text (Ingram Bywater, 1909) (OCR draft) Experimental (Ingram Bywater's Greek text of Aristotle's Poetics, published in 1909.) — 15 focus
Poetics, Greek text (Franz Ritter, 1839) (OCR draft) Experimental (Franz Ritter's 1839 Greek edition, corrected against OCR of the represented copy and aligned to the conventional Perseus chapter-and-subchapter sequence.) — 15 focus
Translations (13)
Poetics (W. H. Fyfe) (OCR draft) Perseus (William Hamilton Fyfe's English translation of Aristotle's Poetics, Loeb Classical Library, 1939 printing.) — 15 focus
Arabic Poetics (Badawī edition, 1953) (OCR draft) (The ancient Arabic translation of Aristotle's Poetics in ʿAbd al-Raḥmān Badawī's 1953 edition.) — 15 focus
Poetics (S. H. Butcher, 1911) (OCR draft) Experimental (S. H. Butcher's English translation from Aristotle's Theory of Poetry and Fine Art, fourth edition, 1911.) — 15 focus
Aristotle on the Art of Poetry (Ingram Bywater, 1909) (OCR draft) Experimental (Ingram Bywater's English translation of Aristotle's Poetics, published in 1909.) — 15 focus
Poetics (Thomas Twining, 1789) (OCR draft) Experimental (Thomas Twining's English translation of Aristotle's Poetics, published in 1789 and aligned to the Kassel reference passage sequence.) — 15.8 focus
of improper and unbecoming manners, in the lamentation of Ulysses in Scylla, and in the speech of Menalippe 1 :
The Poetic of Aristotle (Henry James Pye, revised 1792) (OCR draft) Experimental (Henry James Pye's revised 1792 English translation, corrected against the 1788 first edition, aligned to the Kassel reference edition, and supplied with a selective apparatus of substantive 1788 readings.) — 15.8 focus
and what relates to the return of the Greeks in the Iliad [D]. Machinery is most properly employed in those circumstances that are 1 2 3
Poetica Latine conversa (Franciscus Ritter, 1839) (OCR draft) Experimental (Franz Ritter's Latin translation, corrected against OCR of the represented copy and aligned to the conventional Perseus chapter-and-subchapter sequence.) — 15 focus
La poëtique d'Aristote (André Dacier, 1692) (OCR draft) Experimental (André Dacier's French translation of Aristotle's Poetics, published in 1692.) — 15.8 focus
Les lamentations d'Ulyſſe dans la Scylla du même Poëte, & tout le diſcours de ſa Menalippe dans la piece qui porte ce nom, péchent contre la convenance, car il n'y a rien de plus indécent.
Poetica d'Aristotile (Bernardo Segni, 1549) (OCR draft) Experimental (Bernardo Segni's 1549 Florentine Italian translation, aligned to the Kassel reference passage sequence.) — 15 focus
De poetica (Antonio Riccobono, 1587) (OCR draft) Experimental (Antonio Riccobono's Latin translation, first published in 1587; text represented from Immanuel Bekker's 1831 edition.) — 15 focus
De arte poetica liber (William of Moerbeke, ca. 1277) (OCR draft) Experimental (William of Moerbeke's medieval Latin translation, represented by the 1953 Aristoteles Latinus edition.) — 15 focus
Arabic Poetics (Abū Bishr Mattā; Tkatsch edition) (OCR draft) Experimental (The Arabic translation attributed to Abū Bishr Mattā, edited by Jaroslaus Tkatsch in 1928 and aligned to the Kassel reference passage sequence.) — 15 focus
Arabic Poetics (Abū Bishr Mattā; Tkatsch edition, unaligned) (OCR draft) Experimental (Tkatsch's edition of the medieval Arabic translation in its original, unaligned segmentation.) — 15 focus

Notes on the current edition

Poetics

1. 8. Comparison with painting.

Commentary

Commentary on the Poetics (Ingram Bywater, 1909) (OCR draft) (Ingram Bywater's English commentary on Aristotle's Poetics.) focus

8. mvp-aristotle-comment-536

1454a ἐν τῇ Σκύλλῃ: comp. 26, 1461 b 32 . The Scylla Aristotle has in mind has been often supposed to be a tragedy of Euripides. But there is apparently no mention elsewhere of a tragedy with this title by Euripides (comp. Wilamowitz, Analecta Eurip. p. 159), and the language in 26, 1461 b 32 seems to point rather to a dithyramb. All discussion has been set at rest by Gomperz's recovery among the Vienna papyri of a fragment of some ancient critical treatise, which mentions the θρῆνος of Ulysses (i. e. a portion of the Scylla) as the work of the dithyrambic poet Timotheus:
εἰσὶν δὲ τινὲς οἱ ὃν μὲν προτίθενται οὐ μειμοῦνται [δὲ], ἄλλον δὲ καὶ τοῦτον καλῶς, εἰ τυγχάνοιεν ἐνέχοντες ἔννοιαν καὶ παράδειγμα παρ᾿ ἡμεῖν αὐτοῖς, ὥσπερ καὶ Τειμόθεος ἐν τῷ θρήνῳ τοῦ Ὀδυσσέως εἰ μέν τινα μειμεῖται καὶ τὸ ὅμοιόν τινι οἶδεν, ἀλλ᾽ οὐ τῷ Ὀδυσσεῖ
(v. Gomperz, Vienna Academy, Anz. der phil. hist. Classe 1886, v; comp. Wilamowitz, Timotheos p. 111). To this Aristotle appends a second instance, one from a tragedy, as though conscious of the first being not quite to the point.

8. mvp-aristotle-comment-537

1454a32 ἡ τῆς Μελανίππης ῥῆσις, in the Μελανίππη ἡ σοφή of Euripides ( Nauck, TGF. p. 509 ). The rationalistic argument put into her mouth against the popular idea of monsters ( τέρατα) was in Aristotle's view (see on δεινὴν 24 ) an exhibition of cleverness out of place in a woman.

Remarques sur la poëtique d'Aristote (André Dacier, 1692) (OCR draft) (André Dacier's French commentary on Aristotle's Poetics.) focus

12. mvp-aristotle-comment-372

15.8 Les lamentations d'Ulyſſe dans la Scylla du mème Poë-te, & tout le discours de ſa Menalippe dans la piece qui porte ce nom, péchent contre la convenance, car il n'y a rien de plus indécent.] 1

Commentarius in Aristotelis Poeticam (Franciscus Ritter, 1839) (OCR draft) (Ritter's Latin commentary, extracted from the 1839 volume, divided by Ritter's chapters and sections, and linked to the corresponding Perseus reference subsections.) focus

5. mvp-aristotle-comment-105

Ritter, cap. 15 § 5

ἔστι δὲ παράδειγμα κτλ. tria morum pingendorum praecepta illustrare ita pergit, ut quomodo peccatum sit in primum et tertium singulis exemplis, et quomodo id quod aptum ( τὸ ἁρμόττον) non servatum sit, duobus exemplis demonstret. πονηροῦ ἤθους (quod contrarium τῷ χρηστῷ) exemplar Menelaus est qualem Euripides in Oreste monstravit; τὸ ἁρμόττον violavit Euripides cum in Scylla lamentationem Ulixis et in Melanippa orationem minime convenientem puellae inseruit; inconstantiae vitium deprehenditur in Euripidis Iphigenia Aulidensi. Euripidis nomen epitomator brevitati nimium studens omisit. de singulis ordine dicam. Μενέλαος ὁ ἐν τῷ Ὀρέστη: primum illud praeceptum quo commendatur tragico poetae, ut χρηστὰ ἤθη fingat, Euripides in tragoedia Oreste violavit, cum Menelaum inconstantia foedum atque improbum finxit, eoque magis violavit quod neque argumenti illius natura neque fabulosae historiae traditione cogebatur (hoc est illud μὴ ἀναγκαῖον), sed civibus suis Laconas aversantibus gratificaturus Menelaum Laconem talem descripsit. conf. Marklandius ad Euripidis Iphigen. Aulid. v. 304. qui argumentum Orestae conscripsit monet: τὸ δράμα τῶν ἐπὶ σκηνῆς εὐδοκιμούντων, χείριστον δὲ τοῖς ἤθεσιν· πλὴν γὰρ Πυλάδου πάντες φαῦλοι ἦσαν. θρῆνος Ὀδυσσέως ἐν τῇ Σκύλλῃ: transit ad peccata in alterum praeceptum commissa. Scyllam' nonnisi ex hoc loco et ex c. 26 init. cognovimus. Euripidis fabulam fuisse inde discimus quod media inter Euripideas af-COMMENTARIVS! fertur, drama Satyricum fuisse vir in his litteris versatissimus, Welckerus noster, mox demonstrabit. - καὶ ἡ τῆς Μελανίππης ῥῆσις: Melanippam Euripidis tragoediam saepe, scriptores antiqui respiciunt, ac fragmenta non pauca inde servata sunt. inerat mira et arguta puellae Melanippae ad patrem oratio. illa enim cum geminum partuma Ne ptuno compressa edidisset et in patris stabulis clam exposuisset, ille autem infantulos tamquam monstra ex bubus nata comburere pararet, filia ex placitis Anaxagorae probare studuit, pueros quamvis ex bubus natos non pro monstris habendos esse; item multa alia attulit quibus patri interimendorum puerorum consilium dissuaderet. vid. Dionysii Halic. Rhetor. apud Reiskium vol. V. pag. 300 et 355. propter disputationis subtilitatem ea fabula Μελανίππη ἡ σοφή vocabatur. quemadmodum lamentatio non decet Ulixem virum fortem, sic oratio tam subtilis et parum verecunda non convenit virgini tantis difficultatibus impeditae. sane et illud epitomatorem sapit quod ῥῆσις Μελανίππης tam nude pro exemplo ponitur. – ἡ ἐν Αὐλίδι Ἰφιγένεια: constantiae in moribus observandae praeceptum egressus est Euripides in Iphigenia Aulidensi, nimirum non hoc reprehenditur quod Iphigenia vitam sibi a patre primo supplex deprecatur ac mox rerum condicionem perspiciens mactandam sese offert, sed id recte me iudice vituperatur, quod eadem virgo quae v. 1211-1252. abiecte et humiliter flendo ne immoletur precatur, quaeque adeo ad inhonesta et turpia illa descendit, τὸ φῶς τόδ' ἀνθρώποισιν ἥδιστον βλέπειν, い ​ τὰ νέρθε δ᾽ οὐδέν· μαίνεται δ' ὃς εὔχεται θανεῖν, κακῶς ζῆν κρεῖσσον ἢ θανεῖν καλῶς, quod eadem non multo post (v. 1368-1401) prorsus conversa et tamquam virago fortissima procedit. frustra non Euripidem sed Chaeremonem a se pro auctore fabulae habitum defendere atque hanc reprehensionem diluere conatus est Gruppius in Ariadna p. 487 sqq. et 498 sqq. idem totum hunc locum (§. 5) additamentum esse ab aliena manu insertum :opinatur. vid. p. 557 sqq. hoc si verum esset, tria alia exempla (§. 7) pro insertis maiore etiam iure habenda essent. sed hisce sublatis de moribus disputatio adeo quasi marcescit et vanescit, ut paucula quaedam frusta remaneant: sed cum eadem bonas observationes et pro illo interpolatore nimis egregias contineat, hunc de moribus locum ab illo non scriptum sed insigniter decurtatum et prave dispositum esse coniicere praestat. illud bene monuit Gruppius, ipsum Aristotelem Iphigeniam Euripideam non tam nude designaturum fuisse, cum et Sophocles et Aeschylus Iphigeniam docuerint et Polyidus sophista eodem nomine tragoediam evulgaverit. vid. infra c. 16, 6 et c. 17, 3. sed haec et alia in quibus offendit Gruppius, cur ita se habeant ex nostra ratione liquet. : :