Lucian of Samosata, Toxaris vel amicitia, Austin Morris Harmon (Translator), 1

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[1]

MNESIPPUS

What about it, Toxaris? Do you Scythians sacrifice to Orestes and Pylades, and have you come to believe that they are gods?

TOXARIS

We sacrifice, Mnesippus, we sacrifice; not, however, because we think them gods, but good men.¹

MNESIPPUS

Is it your custom to sacrifice to good men when they are dead, as if they were gods?

TOXARIS

Not only that, but we honour them with festivals and pilgrimages.

MNESIPPUS

What do you crave from them? For surely it is not to gain their grace that you sacrifice to them, in view of the fact that they are dead.

TOXARIS

Well, we should be none the worse off, perhaps, if even the dead should be gracious to us. However, we think it will be better for the living if we do not forget men of high achievement, and we honour them after death because we consider that in this way we can get many to wish to become like them.

Toxaris vel amicitia. Lucian of Samosata. Austin Morris Harmon (Translator). United States. Perseus 5.0.

Funding provided by National Endowment for the Humanities.

Current edition Perseus

Toxaris, or Friendship (English) (Lucian, Vol. 5. Harmon, Austin Morris, editor. London: William Heinemann, Ltd.; Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1936 (printing).)

Editions (1)

Τόξαρις ἢ Φιλία Perseus (Lucian, Vol. 5. Harmon, Austin Morris, editor. London: William Heinemann, Ltd.; Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1936 (printing).) — 1 focus

Μνήσιππος

τί φής, ὦ Τόξαρι; θύετε Ὀρέστῃ καὶ Πυλάδῃ ὑμεῖς οἱ Σκύθαι καὶ θεοὺς εἶναι πεπιστεύκατε αὐτούς;

Τόξαρις

θύομεν, ὦ Μνήσιππε, θύομεν, οὐ μὴν θεούς γε οἰόμενοι εἶναι, ἀλλὰ ἄνδρας ἀγαθούς.

Μνήσιππος

νόμος δὲ ὑμῖν καὶ ἀνδράσιν ἀγαθοῖς ἀποθανοῦσι θύειν ὥσπερ θεοῖς;

Τόξαρις

οὐ μόνον, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἑορταῖς καὶ πανηγύρεσιν τιμῶμεν αὐτούς.

Μνήσιππος

τί θηρώμενοι παρʼ αὐτῶν; οὐ γὰρ δὴ ἐπʼ εὐμενείᾳ θύετε αὐτοῖς, νεκροῖς γε οὖσιν.

Τόξαρις

οὐ χεῖρον μὲν ἴσως, εἰ καὶ οἱ νεκροὶ ἡμῖν εὐμενεῖς εἶεν· οὐ μὴν ἀλλὰ πρὸς¹ τοὺς ζῶντας ἄμεινον οἰόμεθα πράξειν μεμνημένοι τῶν ἀρίστων, καὶ τιμῶμεν ἀποθανόντας, ἡγούμεθα γὰρ οὕτως ἂν ἡμῖν πολλοὺς ὁμοίους αὐτοῖς ἐθελῆσαι γενέσθαι.

Translations (2)

Toxaris: a Dialogue of Friendship Perseus (The Works of Lucian of Samosata, Vol. 3. Fowler, Henry Watson and Fowler, Francis George, translators. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.) — 1 focus

[1]

Mnesippus

Now, Toxaris: do you mean to tell me that you people actually sacrifice to Orestes and Pylades? do you take them for Gods?

Toxaris

Sacrifice to them? of course we do. It does not follow that we think they are Gods: they were good men.

Mnesippus

And in Scythia ‘good men’ receive sacrifice just the same as Gods?

Toxaris

Not only that, but we honour them with feasts and public gatherings.

Mnesippus

But what do you expect from them? ‘They are shades now, so their goodwill can be no object.

Toxaris

Why, as to that, I think it may be just as well to have a good understanding even with shades. But that is not all: in honouring the dead we consider that we are also doing the best we can for the living. Our idea is that by preserving the memory of the noblest of mankind, we induce many people to follow their example.

Toxaris; Or, Friendship Perseus (Selections from Lucian. Smith, Emily James, translator. New York: Harper Brothers, 1892.) — 1 focus

[1]

Mnesippos

What do you say, Toxaris? Do you Scythians sacrifice to Orestes and Pylades, and believe in them as gods?

Toxaris

We sacrifice to them, certainly; still we do not hold them to be gods, but good men.

Mnesippos

But is it customary with you to sacrifice to good men, too, when they die, just as you do to the gods?

Toxaris

Not only that, but we keep feast-days and holidays in their honor.

Mnesippos

What do you hope to get from them? Surely you don't offer sacrifice for the sake of getting the good-will of dead men.

Toxaris

It is no harm to have even the dead on your side. But we also consider that we act for the advantage of the living by keeping the great and good in mind, and for this reason we honor the dead. For it is our belief that by these means many of our people will conceive a desire to be such men as these were.

Notes on the current edition

Toxaris, or Friendship

The existence of a cult of Orestes and Pylades in Scythia is not otherwise attested, and is credible only in a limited sense, as a local development of Greek hero-worship; see below, on the Oresteum, § 6.

Lucian of Samosata Toxaris vel amicitia 1

Austin Morris Harmon (Translator)

Search the Perseus Catalog for:

MNESIPPUS

TOXARIS

MNESIPPUS

TOXARIS

MNESIPPUS

TOXARIS

Current edition Perseus

Μνήσιππος

τί φής, ὦ Τόξαρι; θύετε Ὀρέστῃ καὶ Πυλάδῃ ὑμεῖς οἱ Σκύθαι καὶ θεοὺς εἶναι πεπιστεύκατε αὐτούς;

Τόξαρις

θύομεν, ὦ Μνήσιππε, θύομεν, οὐ μὴν θεούς γε οἰόμενοι εἶναι, ἀλλὰ ἄνδρας ἀγαθούς.

Μνήσιππος

νόμος δὲ ὑμῖν καὶ ἀνδράσιν ἀγαθοῖς ἀποθανοῦσι θύειν ὥσπερ θεοῖς;

Τόξαρις

οὐ μόνον, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἑορταῖς καὶ πανηγύρεσιν τιμῶμεν αὐτούς.

Μνήσιππος

τί θηρώμενοι παρʼ αὐτῶν; οὐ γὰρ δὴ ἐπʼ εὐμενείᾳ θύετε αὐτοῖς, νεκροῖς γε οὖσιν.

Mnesippus

Toxaris

Mnesippus

Toxaris

Mnesippus

Toxaris

Mnesippos

Toxaris

Mnesippos

Toxaris

Mnesippos

Toxaris

Notes on the current edition

Stable identifiers

Search the Perseus Catalog for:

Search the Perseus Catalog for:

MNESIPPUS

TOXARIS

MNESIPPUS

TOXARIS

MNESIPPUS

TOXARIS

Current edition Perseus

Μνήσιππος τί φής, ὦ Τόξαρι; θύετε Ὀρέστῃ καὶ Πυλάδῃ ὑμεῖς οἱ Σκύθαι καὶ θεοὺς εἶναι πεπιστεύκατε αὐτούς;

Τόξαρις θύομεν, ὦ Μνήσιππε, θύομεν, οὐ μὴν θεούς γε οἰόμενοι εἶναι, ἀλλὰ ἄνδρας ἀγαθούς.

Μνήσιππος νόμος δὲ ὑμῖν καὶ ἀνδράσιν ἀγαθοῖς ἀποθανοῦσι θύειν ὥσπερ θεοῖς;

Τόξαρις οὐ μόνον, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἑορταῖς καὶ πανηγύρεσιν τιμῶμεν αὐτούς.

Μνήσιππος τί θηρώμενοι παρʼ αὐτῶν; οὐ γὰρ δὴ ἐπʼ εὐμενείᾳ θύετε αὐτοῖς, νεκροῖς γε οὖσιν.

Mnesippus

Toxaris

Mnesippus

Toxaris

Mnesippus

Toxaris

Mnesippos

Toxaris

Mnesippos

Toxaris

Mnesippos

Toxaris

Notes on the current edition

Stable identifiers

Μνήσιππος

τί φής, ὦ Τόξαρι; θύετε Ὀρέστῃ καὶ Πυλάδῃ ὑμεῖς οἱ Σκύθαι καὶ θεοὺς εἶναι πεπιστεύκατε αὐτούς;

Τόξαρις

θύομεν, ὦ Μνήσιππε, θύομεν, οὐ μὴν θεούς γε οἰόμενοι εἶναι, ἀλλὰ ἄνδρας ἀγαθούς.

Μνήσιππος

νόμος δὲ ὑμῖν καὶ ἀνδράσιν ἀγαθοῖς ἀποθανοῦσι θύειν ὥσπερ θεοῖς;

Τόξαρις

οὐ μόνον, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἑορταῖς καὶ πανηγύρεσιν τιμῶμεν αὐτούς.

Μνήσιππος

τί θηρώμενοι παρʼ αὐτῶν; οὐ γὰρ δὴ ἐπʼ εὐμενείᾳ θύετε αὐτοῖς, νεκροῖς γε οὖσιν.