Lucian, Juppiter Tragoedus, Henry Watson Fowler (Translator), Francis George Fowler (Translator), 39

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Timocles

I cannot admit that further proof is required; nevertheless, I will give you one. Will you allow Homer to have been an admirable poet?

Damis

Surely.

Timocles

Well, he maintains Providence, and warrants my belie}.

Damis

Magnificent! why, every one will grant you Homer's poetic excellence; but not that he, or any other poet for that matter, is good authority on questions of this sort. Their object, of course, ts not truth, but fascination; they call in the charms of metre, they take tales for the vehicle of what instruction they give, and in short all their efforts are directed to pleasure.

Juppiter Tragoedus. Lucian. Henry Watson Fowler (Translator), Francis George Fowler (Translator). Medford, MA, USA. 2023-08-01.

Current edition Perseus

Zeus Tragoedus (English) (The Works of Lucian of Samosata, Vol. 3. Fowler, Henry Watson and Fowler, Francis George, translators. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.)

Editions (1)

Ζεὺς Τραγῳδός Perseus (Lucian, Vol. 2. Harmon, Austin Morris, editor. London: William Heinemann, Ltd.; Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1915.) — 39 focus

Τιμοκλῆς

ἐγὼ μὲν οὐκ οἶμαι καὶ ἄλλης ἐπὶ τούτοις δεῖν ἀποδείξεως. ὅμως δʼ οὖν ἐρῶ· ἀπόκριναι γάρ μοι, Ὅμηρός σοι δοκεῖ ἄριστος ποιητὴς γενέσθαι;

Δάμις

καὶ μάλα.

Τιμοκλῆς

οὐκοῦν ἐκείνῳ ἐπείσθην τὴν πρόνοιαν τῶν θεῶν ἐμφανίζοντι.

Δάμις

ἀλλʼ, ὦ θαυμάσιε, ποιητὴν μὲν ἀγαθὸν Ὅμηρον γενέσθαι πάντες σοι συνομολογήσουσι, μάρτυρα δὲ ἀληθῆ περὶ τῶν τοιούτων οὔτʼ ἐκεῖνον οὔτε ἄλλον ποιητὴν οὐδένα· οὐ γὰρ ἀληθείας μέλει αὐτοῖς, οἶμαι, ἀλλὰ τοῦ κηλεῖν τοὺς ἀκούοντας, καὶ διὰ τοῦτο μέτροις τε κατᾴδουσι καὶ μύθοις κατηχοῦσι καὶ ὅλως ἅπαντα ὑπὲρ τοῦ τερπνοῦ μηχανῶνται.

Translations (2)

Zeus Rants Perseus (Lucian, Vol. 2. Harmon, Austin Morris, editor. London: William Heinemann, Ltd.; Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1915.) — 39 focus

TIMOCLES

For my part I don’t think that any further proof is necessary on top of all this. Nevertheless I'll tell ou. Answer me this: do you think that Homer is the best poet?

DAMIS

Yes, certainly,

TIMOCLES

Well, it was he that convinced me with his portrayal of the providence of the gods.

DAMIS

But, my admirable friend, everybody will agree with you that Homer is a good poet, to be sure, but not that he or any other poet whatsoever is a truthful witness. They do not pay any heed to truth, I take it, but only to charming their hearers, and to this end they enchant them with metres and entrance them with fables and in a word do anything to give pleasure.

Zeus the Tragedian Perseus (Selections from Lucian. Smith, Emily James, translator. New York: Harper Brothers, 1892.) — 39 focus

Timokles

For my part, I do not think that additional proof is necessary; but still I will go on. Answer me, do you consider Homer the best of poets?

Damis

Certainly.

Timokles

Well, he convinced me by setting forth the providence of the gods.

Damis

But, my astonishing friend, every one will grant you that Homer is a great poet, but not that he or any poet whatsoever is a reliable witness in these matters. For their concern, I imagine, is not for truth, but to charm their hearers; and on this account they lull us with metres and amuse us with stories, and devise the whole thing in the interests of pleasure. Still, I should be pleased to hear what passages of Homer chiefly convinced you.

Lucian Juppiter Tragoedus 39

Henry Watson Fowler (Translator), Francis George Fowler (Translator)

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Timocles

I cannot admit that further proof is required; nevertheless, I will give you one. Will you allow Homer to have been an admirable poet?

Damis

Surely.

Timocles

Well, he maintains Providence, and warrants my belie}.

Current edition Perseus

Τιμοκλῆς

ἐγὼ μὲν οὐκ οἶμαι καὶ ἄλλης ἐπὶ τούτοις δεῖν ἀποδείξεως. ὅμως δʼ οὖν ἐρῶ· ἀπόκριναι γάρ μοι, Ὅμηρός σοι δοκεῖ ἄριστος ποιητὴς γενέσθαι;

Δάμις

καὶ μάλα.

Τιμοκλῆς

οὐκοῦν ἐκείνῳ ἐπείσθην τὴν πρόνοιαν τῶν θεῶν ἐμφανίζοντι.

TIMOCLES

For my part I don’t think that any further proof is necessary on top of all this. Nevertheless I'll tell ou. Answer me this: do you think that Homer is the best poet?

DAMIS

Yes, certainly,

TIMOCLES

Well, it was he that convinced me with his portrayal of the providence of the gods.

Timokles

For my part, I do not think that additional proof is necessary; but still I will go on. Answer me, do you consider Homer the best of poets?

Damis

Certainly.

Timokles

Well, he convinced me by setting forth the providence of the gods.

Stable identifiers

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Timocles I cannot admit that further proof is required; nevertheless, I will give you one. Will you allow Homer to have been an admirable poet?

Damis Surely.

Timocles Well, he maintains Providence, and warrants my belie}.

Current edition Perseus

Τιμοκλῆς ἐγὼ μὲν οὐκ οἶμαι καὶ ἄλλης ἐπὶ τούτοις δεῖν ἀποδείξεως. ὅμως δʼ οὖν ἐρῶ· ἀπόκριναι γάρ μοι, Ὅμηρός σοι δοκεῖ ἄριστος ποιητὴς γενέσθαι;

Δάμις καὶ μάλα.

Τιμοκλῆς οὐκοῦν ἐκείνῳ ἐπείσθην τὴν πρόνοιαν τῶν θεῶν ἐμφανίζοντι.

TIMOCLES For my part I don’t think that any further proof is necessary on top of all this. Nevertheless I'll tell ou. Answer me this: do you think that Homer is the best poet?

DAMIS Yes, certainly,

TIMOCLES Well, it was he that convinced me with his portrayal of the providence of the gods.

Timokles For my part, I do not think that additional proof is necessary; but still I will go on. Answer me, do you consider Homer the best of poets?

Damis Certainly.

Timokles Well, he convinced me by setting forth the providence of the gods.

Stable identifiers

Timocles

I cannot admit that further proof is required; nevertheless, I will give you one. Will you allow Homer to have been an admirable poet?

Damis

Surely.

Timocles

Well, he maintains Providence, and warrants my belie}.

Τιμοκλῆς

ἐγὼ μὲν οὐκ οἶμαι καὶ ἄλλης ἐπὶ τούτοις δεῖν ἀποδείξεως. ὅμως δʼ οὖν ἐρῶ· ἀπόκριναι γάρ μοι, Ὅμηρός σοι δοκεῖ ἄριστος ποιητὴς γενέσθαι;

Δάμις

καὶ μάλα.

Τιμοκλῆς

οὐκοῦν ἐκείνῳ ἐπείσθην τὴν πρόνοιαν τῶν θεῶν ἐμφανίζοντι.

TIMOCLES

For my part I don’t think that any further proof is necessary on top of all this. Nevertheless I'll tell ou. Answer me this: do you think that Homer is the best poet?

DAMIS

Yes, certainly,

TIMOCLES

Well, it was he that convinced me with his portrayal of the providence of the gods.

Timokles

For my part, I do not think that additional proof is necessary; but still I will go on. Answer me, do you consider Homer the best of poets?

Damis

Certainly.

Timokles

Well, he convinced me by setting forth the providence of the gods.