Lucian, Juppiter Confutatus, Henry Watson Fowler (Translator), Francis George Fowler (Translator), 2

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Cyniscus

Then when Homer says, for instance, in another place,

Lest unto Hell thou go, outstripping Fate,

he is talking nonsense, of course?

Zeus

Absolute nonsense. Such a thing is impossible: the law of the Fates, the thread of Destiny, is over all. No; so long as the poets are under the inspiration of the Muses, they speak truth: but once let those Goddesses leave them to their own devices, and they make blunders and contradict themselves. Nor can we blame them: they are but men; how should they know truth, when the divinity whose mouthpieces they were is departed from them?

Cynic

That point is settled, then. But there is another thing I want toknow. There are three Fates, are there not,—Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropus?

Zeus

Quite so.

Juppiter Confutatus. Lucian. Henry Watson Fowler (Translator), Francis George Fowler (Translator). Medford, MA, USA. 2023-08-01.

Current edition Perseus

Zeus Cross-examined (English) (The Works of Lucian of Samosata, Vol. 3. Fowler, Henry Watson and Fowler, Francis George, translators. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.)

Editions (1)

Ζεὺς ἐλεγχόμενος Perseus (Lucian, Vol. 2. Harmon, Austin Morris, editor. London: William Heinemann, Ltd.; Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1915.) — 2 focus

Κυνίσκος

οὐκοῦν ὁπόταν ὁ αὐτὸς Ὅμηρος ἐν ἑτέρῳ μέρει τῆς ποιήσεως λέγῃ,
μὴ καὶ ὑπὲρ μοῖραν δόμον Ἄϊδος
καὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα, ληρεῖν δηλαδὴ φήσομεν τότε αὐτόν;

Ζεύς

καὶ μάλα· οὐδὲν γὰρ οὕτω γένοιτʼ ἂν ἔξω τοῦ νόμου τῶν Μοιρῶν, οὐδὲ ὑπὲρ τὸ λίνον. οἱ ποιηταὶ δὲ ὁπόσα μὲν ἂν ἐκ τῶν Μουσῶν κατεχόμενοι ᾄδωσιν, ἀληθῆ ταῦτά ἐστιν· ὁπόταν δὲ ἀφῶσιν αὐτοὺς αἱ θεαὶ καὶ καθʼ αὑτοὺς ποιῶσι, τότε δὴ καὶ σφάλλονται καὶ ὑπεναντία τοῖς πρότερον διεξίασι· καὶ συγγνώμη, εἰ ἄνθρωποι ὄντες ἀγνοοῦσι τἀληθές, ἀπελθόντος ἐκείνου ὃ τέως παρὸν ἐρραψῴδει διʼ αὐτῶν.

Κυνίσκος

ἀλλὰ τοῦτο μὲν οὕτω φήσομεν. ἔτι δὲ κἀκεῖνό μοι ἀπόκριναι· οὐ τρεῖς αἱ Μοῖραί εἰσι, Κλωθὼ καὶ Λάχεσις, οἶμαι, καὶ Ἄτροπος;

Ζεύς

πάνυ μὲν οὖν.

Translations (1)

Zeus Catechized Perseus (Lucian, Vol. 2. Harmon, Austin Morris, editor. London: William Heinemann, Ltd.; Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1915.) — 2 focus

CYNISCUS

Then when this same Homer in another part of his poem says:

Take care lest ere your fated hour you go to house in Hell¹

Iliad20, 336 and that sort of thing, of course we are to assume that he is talking nonsense?

ZEUS

Certainly, for nothing can come to pass outside the control of the Fates, nor beyond the thread they spin. As for the poets, all that they sing under the inspiration of the Muses is true, but when the goddesses desert them and they compose by - themselves, then they make mistakes and contradict what they said before. And it is excusable that being mere men they do not recognize the truth when that influence is gone which formerly abode with them and rhapsodized through them.

CYNISCUS

Well, we'll assume this to be so. But answer me another question. There are only three of the Fates, are there not—Clotho, Lachesis, I believe, and Atropos?

Lucian Juppiter Confutatus 2

Henry Watson Fowler (Translator), Francis George Fowler (Translator)

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Cyniscus

Then when Homer says, for instance, in another place,

Lest unto Hell thou go, outstripping Fate,

he is talking nonsense, of course?

Cynic

That point is settled, then. But there is another thing I want toknow. There are three Fates, are there not,—Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropus?

Zeus

Quite so.

Current edition Perseus

Κυνίσκος

ἀλλὰ τοῦτο μὲν οὕτω φήσομεν. ἔτι δὲ κἀκεῖνό μοι ἀπόκριναι· οὐ τρεῖς αἱ Μοῖραί εἰσι, Κλωθὼ καὶ Λάχεσις, οἶμαι, καὶ Ἄτροπος;

Ζεύς

πάνυ μὲν οὖν.

CYNISCUS

Then when this same Homer in another part of his poem says:

Take care lest ere your fated hour you go to house in Hell¹

Iliad20, 336 and that sort of thing, of course we are to assume that he is talking nonsense?

CYNISCUS

Well, we'll assume this to be so. But answer me another question. There are only three of the Fates, are there not—Clotho, Lachesis, I believe, and Atropos?

ZEUS

Quite so.

Stable identifiers

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Cyniscus Then when Homer says, for instance, in another place, Lest unto Hell thou go, outstripping Fate, he is talking nonsense, of course?

Cynic That point is settled, then. But there is another thing I want toknow. There are three Fates, are there not,—Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropus?

Zeus Quite so.

Current edition Perseus

Κυνίσκος ἀλλὰ τοῦτο μὲν οὕτω φήσομεν. ἔτι δὲ κἀκεῖνό μοι ἀπόκριναι· οὐ τρεῖς αἱ Μοῖραί εἰσι, Κλωθὼ καὶ Λάχεσις, οἶμαι, καὶ Ἄτροπος;

Ζεύς πάνυ μὲν οὖν.

CYNISCUS Then when this same Homer in another part of his poem says: Take care lest ere your fated hour you go to house in Hell 1 Iliad20, 336 and that sort of thing, of course we are to assume that he is talking nonsense?

CYNISCUS Well, we'll assume this to be so. But answer me another question. There are only three of the Fates, are there not—Clotho, Lachesis, I believe, and Atropos?

ZEUS Quite so.

Stable identifiers

Cyniscus

Then when Homer says, for instance, in another place,

Lest unto Hell thou go, outstripping Fate,

he is talking nonsense, of course?

Cynic

That point is settled, then. But there is another thing I want toknow. There are three Fates, are there not,—Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropus?

Zeus

Quite so.

Κυνίσκος

ἀλλὰ τοῦτο μὲν οὕτω φήσομεν. ἔτι δὲ κἀκεῖνό μοι ἀπόκριναι· οὐ τρεῖς αἱ Μοῖραί εἰσι, Κλωθὼ καὶ Λάχεσις, οἶμαι, καὶ Ἄτροπος;

Ζεύς

πάνυ μὲν οὖν.

CYNISCUS

Then when this same Homer in another part of his poem says:

Take care lest ere your fated hour you go to house in Hell¹

Iliad20, 336 and that sort of thing, of course we are to assume that he is talking nonsense?

CYNISCUS

Well, we'll assume this to be so. But answer me another question. There are only three of the Fates, are there not—Clotho, Lachesis, I believe, and Atropos?

ZEUS

Quite so.