Lucian of Samosata, Juppiter Confutatus, Austin Morris Harmon (Translator), 14

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CYNISCUS

I say nothing of the fact that you are accustomed to give most people perplexed and ambiguous responses, not making it at all clear whether the man who crosses the Halys will cause the loss of his own kingdom or that of Cyrus; for the oracle can be taken in either sense.¹

ZEUS

Apollo had some reason for being angry at Croesus because he had tested him by stewing lamb and turtle together.²

CYNISCUS

He should not have been angry, being a god. However, the very deception of the Lydian was predetermined, I suppose, and in general our lack of definite information about the future is due to the spindle of Destiny; so even your soothsaying is in her province.

Juppiter Confutatus. Lucian of Samosata. Austin Morris Harmon (Translator). United States. Perseus 5.0.

Funding provided by National Endowment for the Humanities.

Current edition Perseus

Zeus Catechized (English) (Lucian, Vol. 2. Harmon, Austin Morris, editor. London: William Heinemann, Ltd.; Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1915.)

Editions (1)

Ζεὺς ἐλεγχόμενος Perseus (Lucian, Vol. 2. Harmon, Austin Morris, editor. London: William Heinemann, Ltd.; Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1915.) — 14 focus

Κυνίσκος

ἐῶ γὰρ λέγειν ὡς λοξὰ καὶ ἐπαμφοτερίζοντα τοῖς πολλοῖς χρᾶν εἰώθατε, οὐ πάνυ ἀποσαφοῦντες εἰ ὁ τὸν Ἅλυν διαβὰς τὴν αὑτοῦ ἀρχὴν καταλύσει ἢ τὴν τοῦ Κύρου· ἄμφω γὰρ δύναται ὁ χρησμός.

Ζεύς

ἦν τις, ὦ Κυνίσκε, τῷ Ἀπόλλωνι ὀργῆς αἰτία κατὰ τοῦ Κροίσου, διότι ἐπειρᾶτο ἐκεῖνος αὐτοῦ ἄρνεια κρέα καὶ χελώνην ἐς τὸ αὐτὸ ἕψων.

Κυνίσκος

ἐχρῆν μὲν μηδὲ ὀργίζεσθαι θεὸν ὄντα· πλὴν ἀλλὰ καὶ τὸ ἐξαπατηθῆναι τῷ Λυδῷ¹ ἐπέπρωτο, οἶμαι, καὶ ὅλως² τὸ μὴ σαφῶς ἀκοῦσαι τὰ μέλλοντα ἡ Εἱμαρμένη ἐπέκλωσεν· ὥστε καὶ ἡ μαντικὴ ὑμῶν ἐκείνης μέρος ἐστίν.

Translations (1)

Zeus Cross-examined Perseus (The Works of Lucian of Samosata, Vol. 3. Fowler, Henry Watson and Fowler, Francis George, translators. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.) — 14 focus

Cyniscus

I even set aside the obscurity of the oracles, which are generally contrived to cut both ways. You omitted to mention, for instance, whether Croesus—‘ the Halys crossed ’ —should destroy his own or Cyrus’s ‘mighty realm.’ It might be either, so far as the oracle goes.

Zeus

Apollo was angry with Croesus. When Croesus boiled that lamb and tortoise together in the cauldron, he was making trial of Apollo.

Cyniscus

Gods ought not to be angry. After all, I suppose it was fated that the Lydian should misinterpret that oracle; his case only serves to illustrate that general ignorance of the future, which Destiny has appointed for mankind. At that rate, your prophetic power too seems to be in her hands.

Notes on the current edition

Zeus Catechized

1. It ran:

If Croesus doth the Halys cross

He'll cause a mighty kingdom’s loss.

2. Wishing to test the Greek oracles before consulting them about invading Persia, Croesus sent representatives to some of the most famous with instructions to ask them all simultaneously, at a specified. time; “What is Croesus doing now”? Apollo divined that he was stewing lamb and turtle together in a copper cauldron with a lid of copper (Herodotus, i. 46 ff.).

Lucian of Samosata Juppiter Confutatus 14

Austin Morris Harmon (Translator)

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CYNISCUS

I say nothing of the fact that you are accustomed to give most people perplexed and ambiguous responses, not making it at all clear whether the man who crosses the Halys will cause the loss of his own kingdom or that of Cyrus; for the oracle can be taken in either sense.¹

ZEUS

Apollo had some reason for being angry at Croesus because he had tested him by stewing lamb and turtle together.²

CYNISCUS

He should not have been angry, being a god. However, the very deception of the Lydian was predetermined, I suppose, and in general our lack of definite information about the future is due to the spindle of Destiny; so even your soothsaying is in her province.

Current edition Perseus

Ζεύς

ἦν τις, ὦ Κυνίσκε, τῷ Ἀπόλλωνι ὀργῆς αἰτία κατὰ τοῦ Κροίσου, διότι ἐπειρᾶτο ἐκεῖνος αὐτοῦ ἄρνεια κρέα καὶ χελώνην ἐς τὸ αὐτὸ ἕψων.

Cyniscus

I even set aside the obscurity of the oracles, which are generally contrived to cut both ways. You omitted to mention, for instance, whether Croesus—‘ the Halys crossed ’ —should destroy his own or Cyrus’s ‘mighty realm.’ It might be either, so far as the oracle goes.

Zeus

Apollo was angry with Croesus. When Croesus boiled that lamb and tortoise together in the cauldron, he was making trial of Apollo.

Cyniscus

Gods ought not to be angry. After all, I suppose it was fated that the Lydian should misinterpret that oracle; his case only serves to illustrate that general ignorance of the future, which Destiny has appointed for mankind. At that rate, your prophetic power too seems to be in her hands.

Notes on the current edition

Stable identifiers

Search the Perseus Catalog for:

Search the Perseus Catalog for:

CYNISCUS I say nothing of the fact that you are accustomed to give most people perplexed and ambiguous responses, not making it at all clear whether the man who crosses the Halys will cause the loss of his own kingdom or that of Cyrus; for the oracle can be taken in either sense. 1

ZEUS Apollo had some reason for being angry at Croesus because he had tested him by stewing lamb and turtle together. 2

CYNISCUS He should not have been angry, being a god. However, the very deception of the Lydian was predetermined, I suppose, and in general our lack of definite information about the future is due to the spindle of Destiny; so even your soothsaying is in her province.

Current edition Perseus

Ζεύς ἦν τις, ὦ Κυνίσκε, τῷ Ἀπόλλωνι ὀργῆς αἰτία κατὰ τοῦ Κροίσου, διότι ἐπειρᾶτο ἐκεῖνος αὐτοῦ ἄρνεια κρέα καὶ χελώνην ἐς τὸ αὐτὸ ἕψων.

Cyniscus I even set aside the obscurity of the oracles, which are generally contrived to cut both ways. You omitted to mention, for instance, whether Croesus—‘ the Halys crossed ’ —should destroy his own or Cyrus’s ‘mighty realm.’ It might be either, so far as the oracle goes.

Zeus Apollo was angry with Croesus. When Croesus boiled that lamb and tortoise together in the cauldron, he was making trial of Apollo.

Cyniscus Gods ought not to be angry. After all, I suppose it was fated that the Lydian should misinterpret that oracle; his case only serves to illustrate that general ignorance of the future, which Destiny has appointed for mankind. At that rate, your prophetic power too seems to be in her hands.

Notes on the current edition

Stable identifiers

CYNISCUS

I say nothing of the fact that you are accustomed to give most people perplexed and ambiguous responses, not making it at all clear whether the man who crosses the Halys will cause the loss of his own kingdom or that of Cyrus; for the oracle can be taken in either sense.¹

ZEUS

Apollo had some reason for being angry at Croesus because he had tested him by stewing lamb and turtle together.²

CYNISCUS

He should not have been angry, being a god. However, the very deception of the Lydian was predetermined, I suppose, and in general our lack of definite information about the future is due to the spindle of Destiny; so even your soothsaying is in her province.

Ζεύς

ἦν τις, ὦ Κυνίσκε, τῷ Ἀπόλλωνι ὀργῆς αἰτία κατὰ τοῦ Κροίσου, διότι ἐπειρᾶτο ἐκεῖνος αὐτοῦ ἄρνεια κρέα καὶ χελώνην ἐς τὸ αὐτὸ ἕψων.

Cyniscus

I even set aside the obscurity of the oracles, which are generally contrived to cut both ways. You omitted to mention, for instance, whether Croesus—‘ the Halys crossed ’ —should destroy his own or Cyrus’s ‘mighty realm.’ It might be either, so far as the oracle goes.

Zeus

Apollo was angry with Croesus. When Croesus boiled that lamb and tortoise together in the cauldron, he was making trial of Apollo.

Cyniscus

Gods ought not to be angry. After all, I suppose it was fated that the Lydian should misinterpret that oracle; his case only serves to illustrate that general ignorance of the future, which Destiny has appointed for mankind. At that rate, your prophetic power too seems to be in her hands.