Lucian of Samosata, Juppiter Confutatus, Austin Morris Harmon (Translator), 11

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ZEUS

By no means, but Fate does it all through us.

CYNISCUS

I understand; you allege that you are servants and assistants of the Fates. But even at that, the providence would be theirs, and you are only their instruments and tools, as it were.

ZEUS

What do you mean?

CYNISCUS

You are in the same case, I suppose, as the adze and the drill of the carpenter, which help him somewhat in his craft, and yet no one would say that they are the craftsman or that the ship is the work of the adze or the drill, but of the shipwright. Well, in like manner it is Destiny who does all the building and you at most are only drills and adzes of the Fates, and I believe men ought to sacrifice to Destiny and ask their blessings ‘from her instead of going to you and exalting you with processions and sacrifices. But no: even if they honoured Destiny they would not be doing so to any purpose, for I don’t suppose it is possible even for the Fates themselves to alter or reverse any of their original decrees about each man. Atropos, at all events, would not put up with it if anyone should turn the spindle backwards and undo the work of Clotho. ¹

Juppiter Confutatus. Lucian of Samosata. Austin Morris Harmon (Translator). United States. Perseus 5.0.

Funding provided by National Endowment for the Humanities.

Current edition Perseus

Zeus Catechized (English) (Lucian, Vol. 2. Harmon, Austin Morris, editor. London: William Heinemann, Ltd.; Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1915.)

Editions (1)

Ζεὺς ἐλεγχόμενος Perseus (Lucian, Vol. 2. Harmon, Austin Morris, editor. London: William Heinemann, Ltd.; Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1915.) — 11 focus

Ζεύς

οὐδαμῶς, ἀλλʼ ἡ Μοῖρα διʼ ἡμῶν ἕκαστα ἐπιτελεῖ.

Κυνίσκος

μανθάνω· ὑπηρέται καὶ διάκονοί τινες τῶν Μοιρῶν εἶναί φατε. πλὴν ἀλλὰ καὶ οὕτως ἐκεῖναι ἂν εἶεν αἱ προνοοῦσαι, ὑμεῖς δὲ ὥσπερ σκεύη τινὰ καὶ ἐργαλεῖά ἐστε αὐτῶν.

Ζεύς

πῶς λέγεις;

Κυνίσκος

ὥσπερ, οἶμαι, καὶ τὸ σκέπαρνον τῷ τέκτονι καὶ τὸ τρύπανον συνεργεῖ μέν τι πρὸς τὴν τέχνην, οὐδεὶς δʼ ἂν εἴποι ὡς ταῦτα ὁ τεχνίτης ἐστίν, οὐδʼ ἡ ναῦς ἔργον τοῦ σκεπάρνου ἢ τοῦ τρυπάνου, ἀλλὰ τοῦ ναυπηγοῦ· ἀνάλογον τοίνυν ἡ μὲν ναυπηγουμένη ἕκαστα ἡ Εἱμαρμένη ἐστίν, ὑμεῖς δέ, εἴπερ ἄρα, τρύπανα καὶ σκέπαρνά ἐστε τῶν Μοιρῶν· καί, ὡς ἔοικεν, οἱ ἄνθρωποι δέον τῇ Εἱμαρμένῃ θύειν καὶ παρʼ ἐκείνης αἰτεῖν τἀγαθά, οἱ δʼ ἐφʼ ὑμᾶς ἴασι προσόδοις καὶ θυσίαις γεραίροντες· ἢ οὐδὲ τὴν Εἱμαρμένην τιμῶντες εἰς δέον ἂν αὐτὸ ἔπραττον· οὐ γὰρ οἶμαι δυνατὸν εἶναι οὐδὲ αὐταῖς ἔτι ταῖς Μοίραις ἀλλάξαι τι καὶ μετατρέψαι τῶν ἐξ ἀρχῆς δοξάντων περὶ ἑκάστου· ἡ γοῦν Ἄτροπος οὐκ ἀνάσχοιτʼ ἄν, εἴ τις εἰς τὸ ἐναντίον στρέψειε τὸν ἄτρακτον ἀναλύων τῆς Κλωθοῦς τὸ ἔργον.

Translations (1)

Zeus Cross-examined Perseus (The Works of Lucian of Samosata, Vol. 3. Fowler, Henry Watson and Fowler, Francis George, translators. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.) — 11 focus

Zeus

Not at all; but the Fates work through us.

Cyniscus

I see: you are their servants, their underlings. But that comes to the same thing: it is still they who design; you are only their tools, their instruments.

Zeus

How do you make that out?

Cyniscus

I suppose it is pretty much the same as with a carpenter’s adze and drill: they do assist him in his» work, but no one would describe them as the workmen; we do not say that a ship has been turned out by such and such an adze, or by such and such a drill; we name the shipwright. In the same way, Destiny and the Fates are the universal shipwrights, and you are their drills and adzes; and it seems to me that instead of paying their respects and their sacrifices to you, men ought to sacrifice to Destiny, and implore ber favours; though even that would not meet the case, because I take it that things are settled once and for all, and that the Fates themselves are not at liberty to chop and change. If some one gave the spindle a turn in the wrong direction, and undid all Clotho’s work, Atropus would have something to say on the subject.

Notes on the current edition

Zeus Catechized

1. play upon the name Atropos, as if it meant "Turnethnot".

Lucian of Samosata Juppiter Confutatus 11

Austin Morris Harmon (Translator)

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ZEUS

By no means, but Fate does it all through us.

CYNISCUS

I understand; you allege that you are servants and assistants of the Fates. But even at that, the providence would be theirs, and you are only their instruments and tools, as it were.

ZEUS

What do you mean?

Current edition Perseus

Ζεύς

οὐδαμῶς, ἀλλʼ ἡ Μοῖρα διʼ ἡμῶν ἕκαστα ἐπιτελεῖ.

Ζεύς

πῶς λέγεις;

Zeus

Not at all; but the Fates work through us.

Cyniscus

I see: you are their servants, their underlings. But that comes to the same thing: it is still they who design; you are only their tools, their instruments.

Zeus

How do you make that out?

Notes on the current edition

Stable identifiers

Search the Perseus Catalog for:

Search the Perseus Catalog for:

ZEUS By no means, but Fate does it all through us.

CYNISCUS I understand; you allege that you are servants and assistants of the Fates. But even at that, the providence would be theirs, and you are only their instruments and tools, as it were.

ZEUS What do you mean?

Current edition Perseus

Ζεύς οὐδαμῶς, ἀλλʼ ἡ Μοῖρα διʼ ἡμῶν ἕκαστα ἐπιτελεῖ.

Ζεύς πῶς λέγεις;

Zeus Not at all; but the Fates work through us.

Cyniscus I see: you are their servants, their underlings. But that comes to the same thing: it is still they who design; you are only their tools, their instruments.

Zeus How do you make that out?

Notes on the current edition

Stable identifiers

ZEUS

By no means, but Fate does it all through us.

CYNISCUS

I understand; you allege that you are servants and assistants of the Fates. But even at that, the providence would be theirs, and you are only their instruments and tools, as it were.

ZEUS

What do you mean?

Ζεύς

οὐδαμῶς, ἀλλʼ ἡ Μοῖρα διʼ ἡμῶν ἕκαστα ἐπιτελεῖ.

Ζεύς

πῶς λέγεις;

Zeus

Not at all; but the Fates work through us.

Cyniscus

I see: you are their servants, their underlings. But that comes to the same thing: it is still they who design; you are only their tools, their instruments.

Zeus

How do you make that out?