Plato, Republic, ed. John Burnet, 9.572

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[572] ὡσαύτως δὲ καὶ τὸ θυμοειδὲς πραΰνας καὶ μή τισιν εἰς ὀργὰς ἐλθὼν κεκινημένῳ τῷ θυμῷ καθεύδῃ, ἀλλʼ ἡσυχάσας μὲν τὼ δύο εἴδη, τὸ τρίτον δὲ κινήσας ἐν ᾧ τὸ φρονεῖν ἐγγίγνεται, οὕτως ἀναπαύηται, οἶσθʼ ὅτι τῆς τʼ ἀληθείας ἐν τῷ τοιούτῳ μάλιστα ἅπτεται καὶ ἥκιστα παράνομοι τότε αἱ ὄψεις 572b φαντάζονται τῶν ἐνυπνίων.
παντελῶς μὲν οὖν, ἔφη, οἶμαι οὕτως.
ταῦτα μὲν τοίνυν ἐπὶ πλέον ἐξήχθημεν εἰπεῖν· ὃ δὲ βουλόμεθα γνῶναι τόδʼ ἐστίν, ὡς ἄρα δεινόν τι καὶ ἄγριον καὶ ἄνομον ἐπιθυμιῶν εἶδος ἑκάστῳ ἔνεστι, καὶ πάνυ δοκοῦσιν ἡμῶν ἐνίοις μετρίοις εἶναι· τοῦτο δὲ ἄρα ἐν τοῖς ὕπνοις γίγνεται ἔνδηλον. εἰ οὖν τι δοκῶ λέγειν καὶ συγχωρεῖς, ἄθρει.
ἀλλὰ συγχωρῶ.
τὸν τοίνυν δημοτικὸν ἀναμνήσθητι οἷον ἔφαμεν εἶναι. 572c ἦν δέ που γεγονὼς ἐκ νέου ὑπὸ φειδωλῷ πατρὶ τεθραμμένος, τὰς χρηματιστικὰς ἐπιθυμίας τιμῶντι μόνας, τὰς δὲ μὴ ἀναγκαίους ἀλλὰ παιδιᾶς τε καὶ καλλωπισμοῦ ἕνεκα γιγνομένας ἀτιμάζοντι. ἦ γάρ;
ναί.
συγγενόμενος δὲ κομψοτέροις ἀνδράσι καὶ μεστοῖς ὧν ἄρτι διήλθομεν ἐπιθυμιῶν, ὁρμήσας εἰς ὕβριν τε πᾶσαν καὶ τὸ ἐκείνων εἶδος μίσει τῆς τοῦ πατρὸς φειδωλίας, φύσιν δὲ τῶν διαφθειρόντων βελτίω ἔχων, ἀγόμενος ἀμφοτέρωσε 572d κατέστη εἰς μέσον ἀμφοῖν τοῖν τρόποιν, καὶ μετρίως δή, ὡς ᾤετο, ἑκάστων ἀπολαύων οὔτε ἀνελεύθερον οὔτε παράνομον βίον ζῇ, δημοτικὸς ἐξ ὀλιγαρχικοῦ γεγονώς.
ἦν γάρ, ἔφη, καὶ ἔστιν αὕτη ἡ δόξα περὶ τὸν τοιοῦτον.
θὲς τοίνυν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, πάλιν τοῦ τοιούτου ἤδη πρεσβυτέρου γεγονότος νέον ὑὸν ἐν τοῖς τούτου αὖ ἤθεσιν τεθραμμένον.
τίθημι.
τίθει τοίνυν καὶ τὰ αὐτὰ ἐκεῖνα περὶ αὐτὸν γιγνόμενα ἅπερ καὶ περὶ τὸν πατέρα αὐτοῦ, ἀγόμενόν τε εἰς πᾶσαν 572e παρανομίαν, ὀνομαζομένην δʼ ὑπὸ τῶν ἀγόντων ἐλευθερίαν ἅπασαν, βοηθοῦντά τε ταῖς ἐν μέσῳ ταύταις ἐπιθυμίαις πατέρα τε καὶ τοὺς ἄλλους οἰκείους, τοὺς δʼ αὖ παραβοηθοῦντας·

Republic. Plato. ed. John Burnet. Oxford. 1905.

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Πολιτεία (Greek) (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.)

Translations (1)

Republic Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).) — 9.572 focus

[572] and when he has in like manner tamed his passionate part, and does not after a quarrel fall asleep¹ with anger still awake within him, but if he has thus quieted the two elements in his soul and quickened the third, in which reason resides, and so goes to his rest, you are aware that in such case² he is most likely to apprehend truth, and 572b the visions of his dreams are least likely to be lawless.³ I certainly think so, he said. This description has carried us too far,⁴ but the point that we have to notice is this, that in fact there exists in every one of us, even in some reputed most respectable,⁵ a terrible, fierce and lawless brood of desires, which it seems are revealed in our sleep. Consider, then, whether there is anything in what I say, and whether you admit it. Well, I do.
Now recall⁶ our characterization of the democratic man. 572c His development was determined by his education from youth under a thrifty father who approved only the acquisitive appetites and disapproved the unnecessary ones whose object is entertainment and display. Is not that so? Yes. And by association with more sophisticated men, teeming with the appetites we have just described, he is impelled towards every form of insolence and outrage, and to the adoption of their way of life by his hatred of his father’s niggardliness. But since his nature is better than that of his corrupters, 572d being drawn both ways he settles down in a compromise⁷ between the two tendencies, and indulging and enjoying each in moderation, forsooth,⁸ as he supposes,⁹ he lives what he deems a life that is neither illiberal nor lawless, now transformed from an oligarch to a democrat. That was and is our belief about this type. Assume,¹⁰ then, again, said I, that such a man when he is older has a son bred in turn¹¹ in his ways of life. I so assume. And suppose the experience of his father 572e to be repeated in his case. He is drawn toward utter lawlessness, which is called by his seducers complete freedom. His father and his other kin lend support to¹² these compromise appetites while the others lend theirs to the opposite group.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

βουλόμεθα . W. H. Thompson's ἐβουλόμεθα is unnecessary and even awkward with the present ἐστίν just following. The Greek means simply ‘but what we want to notice is this’ etc.

καὶ πάνυ belongs to μετρίοις (Schneider) rather than to δοκοῦσιν (J. and C.): ‘however virtuous we may some of us appear to be.’

οἷον ἔφαμεν ἐ=ναι . VIII 561 A— 562 A.

ἦν δέ που κτλ. : ‘he had been, you remember, produced, by having been brought up from early years’ etc. Socrates recalls the genesis of the democratical man (described in 558 C, 559 D ff.) before recalling his nature (in D below). Ast suggested γεγονὼς <καὶ> or γεγονώς <τε καὶ>, taking γεγονώς of birth. The correct interpretation was pointed out by Schneider.

Plato Republic 9.572

ed. John Burnet

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