Plato, Republic, ed. John Burnet, 8.549

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[549]
αὐθαδέστερόν τε δεῖ αὐτόν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, εἶναι καὶ ὑποαμουσότερον, φιλόμουσον δέ, καὶ φιλήκοον μέν, ῥητορικὸν δʼ 549a οὐδαμῶς. καὶ δούλοις μέν τις ἂν ἄγριος εἴη ὁ τοιοῦτος, οὐ καταφρονῶν δούλων, ὥσπερ ὁ ἱκανῶς πεπαιδευμένος, ἐλευθέροις δὲ ἥμερος, ἀρχόντων δὲ σφόδρα ὑπήκοος, φίλαρχος δὲ καὶ φιλότιμος, οὐκ ἀπὸ τοῦ λέγειν ἀξιῶν ἄρχειν οὐδʼ ἀπὸ τοιούτου οὐδενός, ἀλλʼ ἀπὸ ἔργων τῶν τε πολεμικῶν καὶ τῶν περὶ τὰ πολεμικά, φιλογυμναστής τέ τις ὢν καὶ φιλόθηρος.
ἔστι γάρ, ἔφη, τοῦτο τὸ ἦθος ἐκείνης τῆς πολιτείας.
οὐκοῦν καὶ χρημάτων, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὁ τοιοῦτος νέος μὲν ὢν 549b καταφρονοῖ ἄν, ὅσῳ δὲ πρεσβύτερος γίγνοιτο, μᾶλλον ἀεὶ ἀσπάζοιτο ἂν τῷ τε μετέχειν τῆς τοῦ φιλοχρημάτου φύσεως καὶ μὴ εἶναι εἰλικρινὴς πρὸς ἀρετὴν διὰ τὸ ἀπολειφθῆναι τοῦ ἀρίστου φύλακος;
τίνος; ἦ δʼ ὃς ὁ Ἀδείμαντος.
λόγου, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, μουσικῇ κεκραμένου· ὃς μόνος ἐγγενόμενος σωτὴρ ἀρετῆς διὰ βίου ἐνοικεῖ τῷ ἔχοντι.
καλῶς, ἔφη, λέγεις.
καὶ ἔστι μέν γʼ, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, τοιοῦτος ὁ τιμοκρατικὸς νεανίας, τῇ τοιαύτῃ πόλει ἐοικώς. 549c
πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
γίγνεται δέ γʼ, εἶπον, οὗτος ὧδέ πως· ἐνίοτε πατρὸς ἀγαθοῦ ὢν νέος ὑὸς ἐν πόλει οἰκοῦντος οὐκ εὖ πολιτευομένῃ, φεύγοντος τάς τε τιμὰς καὶ ἀρχὰς καὶ δίκας καὶ τὴν τοιαύτην πᾶσαν φιλοπραγμοσύνην καὶ ἐθέλοντος ἐλαττοῦσθαι ὥστε πράγματα μὴ ἔχειν—
πῇ δή, ἔφη, γίγνεται;
ὅταν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, πρῶτον μὲν τῆς μητρὸς ἀκούῃ ἀχθομένης ὅτι οὐ τῶν ἀρχόντων αὐτῇ ὁ ἀνήρ ἐστιν, καὶ ἐλαττουμένης διὰ 549d ταῦτα ἐν ταῖς ἄλλαις γυναιξίν, ἔπειτα ὁρώσης μὴ σφόδρα περὶ χρήματα σπουδάζοντα μηδὲ μαχόμενον καὶ λοιδορούμενον ἰδίᾳ τε ἐν δικαστηρίοις καὶ δημοσίᾳ, ἀλλὰ ῥᾳθύμως πάντα τὰ τοιαῦτα φέροντα, καὶ ἑαυτῷ μὲν τὸν νοῦν προσέχοντα ἀεὶ αἰσθάνηται, ἑαυτὴν δὲ μήτε πάνυ τιμῶντα μήτε ἀτιμάζοντα, ἐξ ἁπάντων τούτων ἀχθομένης τε καὶ λεγούσης ὡς ἄνανδρός τε αὐτῷ ὁ πατὴρ καὶ λίαν ἀνειμένος, καὶ ἄλλα δὴ ὅσα καὶ 549e οἷα φιλοῦσιν αἱ γυναῖκες περὶ τῶν τοιούτων ὑμνεῖν.
καὶ μάλʼ, ἔφη ὁ Ἀδείμαντος, πολλά τε καὶ ὅμοια ἑαυταῖς.

Republic. Plato. ed. John Burnet. Oxford. 1905.

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Πολιτεία (Greek) (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.)

Translations (1)

Republic Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).) — 8.549 focus

[549] He will have to be somewhat self-willed¹ and lacking in culture,² yet a lover of music and fond of listening³ to talk and speeches, though by no means himself a rhetorician; 549a and to slaves such a one would be harsh,⁴ not scorning them as the really educated do, but he would be gentle with the freeborn and very submissive to officials, a lover of office and of honor,⁵ not basing his claim to office⁶ on ability to speak or anything of that sort but on his exploits in war or preparation for war, and he would be a devotee of gymnastics and hunting.⁷ Why, yes, he said, that is the spirit of that polity.⁸ And would not such a man 549b be disdainful of wealth too in his youth, but the older he grew the more he would love it because of his participation in the covetous nature and because his virtue is not sincere and pure since it lacks the best guardian? What guardian? said Adeimantus. Reason, said I, blended with culture,⁹ which is the only indwelling preserver of virtue throughout life in the soul that possesses it. Well said, he replied. This is the character, I said, of the timocratic youth, resembling the city that bears his name. By all means. 549c His origin¹⁰ is somewhat on this wise: Sometimes he is the young son of a good father who lives in a badly governed state and avoids honors and office and law-suits and all such meddlesomeness¹¹ and is willing to forbear something of his rights¹² in order to escape trouble.¹³ How does he originate? he said. Why, when, to begin with, I said, he hears his mother complaining¹⁴ 549d that her husband is not one of the rulers and for that reason she is slighted among the other women, and when she sees that her husband is not much concerned about money and does not fight and brawl in private lawsuits and in the public assembly, but takes all such matters lightly, and when she observes that he is self-absorbed¹⁵ in his thoughts and neither regards nor disregards her overmuch,¹⁶ and in consequence of all this laments and tells the boy that his father is too slack¹⁷ and no kind of a man, with all the other complaints 549e with which women¹⁸ nag¹⁹ in such cases. Many indeed, said Adeimantus, and after their kind.²⁰

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

ἄγριος κτλ. : like the Spartans towards slaves and Helots: cf. Laws 777 A ff. and Gilbert Gk Const. Ant. E. T. pp. 32 ff.

οὐ καταφρονῶν κτλ. is a subtle psychological touch. Those who have no moral or intellectual right to ‘despise’ inferiors are apt to treat them harshly, in the vain effort to convince themselves of their own superiority. ὁ ἱκανῶς πεπαιδευμένος uses those below him “as creatures of another place” ( All's well that ends well I 2. 41). Cf. Arist. Eth. Nic. IV 8. 1124^{b} 5. 20 and (for καταφρονῶν) Thuc. II 62. 4 αὔχημα μὲν γὰρ καὶ ἀπὸ ἀμαθίας εὐτυχοῦς καὶ δειλῷ τινι ἐγγίγνεται, καταφρόνησις δὲ ὃς ἂν καὶ γνώμῃ πιστεύῃ τῶν ἐναντίων προέχειν.

οὐκ ἀπὸ τοῦ λέγειν κτλ. Cf. Prot. 342 E ff. The Spartans were men of deeds, not words.

φιλογυμναστής ‐‐ φιλόθηρος . as in Sparta: see Hermann-Thumser l.c. p. 182 notes 1, 2.

ὅσῳ δὲ πρεσβύτερος κτλ. The life of the timocratical man is an epitome of that of the State, in which, as actually happened at Sparta, the oligarchical element grows more and more powerful as time goes on (547 C note).

λόγου ‐‐ κεχραμένου recalls the ἀληθινὴ Μοῦσα of 548 B.

σωτὴρ ἀρετῆς . Virtue is never secure unless it rests on knowledge, and can render a λόγος of itself: cf. VI 497 C and VII 531 E notes

ἐνίοτε κτλ. Krohn finds a difficulty in οὐκ εὖ πολιτευομένῃ, for timarchy is a degeneration of the perfect city ( Pl. St. pp. 208 ff., insufficiently refuted by Grimmelt de reip. Pl. comp. et unit. p. 71). But Plato is here speaking of the origin of the ‘timarchical’ man, not of the ‘timarchical’ State, and the ἀριστοκρατικός whose son becomes τιμοκρατικός may be found in any one of the degenerate commonwealths, although he will not rule except ‘in his own city,’ i.e. aristocracy. We must beware of supposing that there is no remnant of good men in depraved States (cf. VI 492 E ff., 496 C ff., IX 591 E ff.). If Plato had here preserved the fiction of a historical narrative and made the τιμοκρατικὸς νεανίας the son of an ἀριστοκρατικός in his own ideal city, he could only have attributed his fall to the same law of natural degeneration which subverted the καλλίπολις (546 A ff.). As it is, the description is drawn from facts of daily experience and observation, and Plato, as is suggested by the Oxford editors, may well be thinking of some ‘Laconizing youth of Athens,’ perhaps of some member of the Socratic circle. We have already seen that Plato frequently deserts the epic or narrative form of exposition which he has chosen to express his views: see above on 548 D. I formerly printed a comma after πως and a full stop after ἔχειν, but now revert to Stallbaum's punctuation, because (1) the contrast with καὶ ἔστι μέν γε κτλ. seems to require a fuller pause after πως, (2) ἐνίοτε —ἔχειν does not explain the γένεσις of the τιμοκρατικός, as it ought to do, if γίγνεται—ἔχειν is all one sentence, (3) Adimantus' interruption πῇ δὴ—γίγνεται, which calls attention in a lively manner to the point which Plato wishes to emphasise, is most easily accounted for on the supposition that ἐνίοτε κτλ. begins a separate sentence: cf. 567 E note and Soph. O. C. 644 f., with Jebb's note. νέος ὑός is resumed in νέος (550 A), and has no other predicate except ἦλθε etc. in 550 B.

φεύγοντος κτλ. Cf. VI 496 C ff. and Theaet. 173 C ff. φυγαρχία (if the word may be allowed) on the part of the best men was a growing evil in Athenian politics: see Hermann-Thumser l.c. p. 749 note 4. In a bad State, according to Aristotle ( Pol. Γ 4), the good man is apt to be a bad citizen.

ὅταν κτλ. : ‘whenever, I continued, he listens in the first instance to his mother, who is annoyed because her husband has no place in the government and is on that account belittled among the other wives, and who also sees’ etc. πρῶτον μέν has nothing to do with ἔπειτα, but prepares us for καὶ οἱ οἰκέται κτλ. in 549 E. See also on 549 D. Krohn ( Pl. St. p. 198) thinks the present sentence inconsistent with the position assigned to women in V; but actual wives ἐν πόλει οὐκ εὖ πολιτευομένῃ may be allowed to differ from the perfect products of an ideal city. Plato's description is as realistic as anything could well be: he speaks as though ξυνῳκηκὼς ἐν τῷ αὐτῷ καὶ παραγεγονὼς ἐν ταῖς κατ’ οἰκίαν πράξεσιν (IX 577 A). Socrates and his relations with Xanthippe possibly furnished some details of the picture (so also Müller on p. 749 of his Translation).

λοιδορούμενον is certainly middle, not passive, as Ast imagined: cf. VI 500 B.

ἐν δικαστηρίοις . The opposition between ἴδιαι and δημόσιαι δίκαι (cf. Laws 957 A) is not to the point here, as Vermehren remarks ( Plat. Stud. p. 107), but we should not, with that critic, expunge ἐν δικαστηρίοις. The expression ἰδίᾳ ἐν δικαστηρίοις refers to ἴδιαι δίκαι: and δημοσίᾳ to other public gatherings, as e.g. the assembly: cf. Theaet. 174 C ὅταν ἐν δικαστηρίοις ἤ που ἄλλοθι ἀναγκασθῇ κτλ.

ῥᾳθύμως κτλ. : ‘indifferent to everything of the sort’: cf. Xen. Mem. II 9. 1 , Theaet. 173 C , D and (for the vague use of τὰ τοιαῦτα) VII 536 A.

αἰσθάνηται is usually explained as by anacoluthon for αἰσθανομένης: but no parallels have been cited, nor are the anacolutha by which Engelhardt ( Anac. Pl. Spec. III p. 42) illustrates the sentence in any degree comparable. The sense compels us to regard the subject of αἰσθάνηται as the mother, but grammatically it can only, as with ἀκούῃ, be the son. I formerly placed αἰσθάνηται after ἀχθομένης τε: Richards excises it altogether. Neither solution is perfectly satisfactory; and it is possible that the sentence by some accident or other was imperfectly revised by Plato. The grammatical structure of this chapter from ἐνίοτε πατρός down to ἐπαινουμένους (550 A) is considerably freer than is usual even with Plato, and there are other passages in Book VIII which seem to stand in need of revision: cf. 558 A note Nothing is easier than to ‘emend’ them all in accordance with our grammatical rules, but such emendations involve so great a departure from the MSS that they lack every element of probability, and as it is possible that the fault is Plato's, it is safer for us to adhere to the MSS. Nearly all the greatest writers occasionally offend against the rules by which we seek to bind them. See the excellent remarks of Longinus on the subject of correctness versus fire in composition ( περὶ ὕψους 33—36).

ἄνανδρος ‐‐ καὶ λίαν ἀνειμένος rings poetical. The rhythm may be intentional, to suit ὑμνεῖν: or Plato may have taken the words from a tragedian. Such a line as ἄνανδρός ἐστι καὶ λίαν ἀνειμένος might well have been applied by Zethus to Amphion in Euripides' Antiope, which was in effect a comparison between the πρακτικός and the θεωρητικὸς βίος: see Gorg. 485 E ff. and Eur. Frag. 187 Dind. Cf. also VI 494 D note

Plato Republic 8.549

ed. John Burnet

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