Plato, Republic, ed. John Burnet, 5.459

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[459]
παντάπασι μὲν οὖν. 459a
πῶς οὖν δὴ ὠφελιμώτατοι ἔσονται; τόδε μοι λέγε, ὦ Γλαύκων· ὁρῶ γάρ σου ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ καὶ κύνας θηρευτικοὺς καὶ τῶν γενναίων ὀρνίθων μάλα συχνούς· ἆρʼ οὖν, ὦ πρὸς Διός, προσέσχηκάς τι τοῖς τούτων γάμοις τε καὶ παιδοποιίᾳ;
τὸ ποῖον; ἔφη.
πρῶτον μὲν αὐτῶν τούτων, καίπερ ὄντων γενναίων, ἆρʼ οὐκ εἰσί τινες καὶ γίγνονται ἄριστοι;
εἰσίν.
πότερον οὖν ἐξ ἁπάντων ὁμοίως γεννᾷς, ἢ προθυμῇ ὅτι μάλιστα ἐκ τῶν ἀρίστων;
ἐκ τῶν ἀρίστων. 459b
τί δʼ; ἐκ τῶν νεωτάτων ἢ ἐκ τῶν γεραιτάτων ἢ ἐξ ἀκμαζόντων ὅτι μάλιστα;
ἐξ ἀκμαζόντων.
καὶ ἂν μὴ οὕτω γεννᾶται, πολύ σοι ἡγῇ χεῖρον ἔσεσθαι τό τε τῶν ὀρνίθων καὶ τὸ τῶν κυνῶν γένος;
ἔγωγʼ, ἔφη.
τί δὲ ἵππων οἴει, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, καὶ τῶν ἄλλων ζῴων; ἦ ἄλλῃ πῃ ἔχειν;
ἄτοπον μεντἄν, ἦ δʼ ὅς, εἴη.
βαβαῖ, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὦ φίλε ἑταῖρε, ὡς ἄρα σφόδρα ἡμῖν δεῖ ἄκρων εἶναι τῶν ἀρχόντων, εἴπερ καὶ περὶ τὸ τῶν ἀνθρώπων γένος ὡσαύτως ἔχει. 459c
ἀλλὰ μὲν δὴ ἔχει, ἔφη· ἀλλὰ τί δή;
ὅτι ἀνάγκη αὐτοῖς, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, φαρμάκοις πολλοῖς χρῆσθαι. ἰατρὸν δέ που μὴ δεομένοις μὲν σώμασι φαρμάκων, ἀλλὰ διαίτῃ ἐθελόντων ὑπακούειν, καὶ φαυλότερον ἐξαρκεῖν ἡγούμεθα εἶναι· ὅταν δὲ δὴ καὶ φαρμακεύειν δέῃ, ἴσμεν ὅτι ἀνδρειοτέρου δεῖ τοῦ ἰατροῦ.
ἀληθῆ· ἀλλὰ πρὸς τί λέγεις;
πρὸς τόδε, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ· συχνῷ τῷ ψεύδει καὶ τῇ ἀπάτῃ κινδυνεύει ἡμῖν δεήσειν χρῆσθαι τοὺς ἄρχοντας ἐπʼ ὠφελίᾳ 459d τῶν ἀρχομένων. ἔφαμεν δέ που ἐν φαρμάκου εἴδει πάντα τὰ τοιαῦτα χρήσιμα εἶναι.
καὶ ὀρθῶς γε, ἔφη.
ἐν τοῖς γάμοις τοίνυν καὶ παιδοποιίαις ἔοικε τὸ ὀρθὸν τοῦτο γίγνεσθαι οὐκ ἐλάχιστον.
πῶς δή;
δεῖ μέν, εἶπον, ἐκ τῶν ὡμολογημένων τοὺς ἀρίστους ταῖς ἀρίσταις συγγίγνεσθαι ὡς πλειστάκις, τοὺς δὲ φαυλοτάτους ταῖς φαυλοτάταις τοὐναντίον, καὶ τῶν μὲν τὰ ἔκγονα τρέφειν, 459e τῶν δὲ μή, εἰ μέλλει τὸ ποίμνιον ὅτι ἀκρότατον εἶναι, καὶ ταῦτα πάντα γιγνόμενα λανθάνειν πλὴν αὐτοὺς τοὺς ἄρχοντας, εἰ αὖ ἡ ἀγέλη τῶν φυλάκων ὅτι μάλιστα ἀστασίαστος ἔσται.
ὀρθότατα, ἔφη.

Republic. Plato. ed. John Burnet. Oxford. 1905.

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Current edition Perseus

Πολιτεία (Greek) (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.)

Translations (1)

Republic Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).) — 5.459 focus

[459] 459a By all means. How, then, would the greatest benefit result? Tell me this, Glaucon. I see that you have in your house hunting-dogs and a number of pedigree cocks.¹ Have you ever considered something about their unions and procreations? What?² he said. In the first place, I said, among these themselves, although they are a select breed, do not some prove better than the rest? They do. Do you then breed from all indiscriminately, or are you careful to breed from the best³? 459b From the best. And, again, do you breed from the youngest or the oldest, or, so far as may be, from those in their prime? From those in their prime. And if they are not thus bred, you expect, do you not, that your birds and hounds will greatly degenerate? I do, he said. And what of horses and other animals? I said; is it otherwise with them? It would be strange if it were, said he. Gracious, said I, dear friend, how imperative, then, is our need of the highest skill in our rulers, if the principle holds also for mankind. 459c Well, it does, he said, but what of it? This, said I, that they will have to employ many of those drugs⁴ of which we were speaking. We thought that an inferior physician sufficed for bodies that do not need drugs but yield to diet and regimen. But when it is necessary to prescribe drugs we know that a more enterprising and venturesome physician is required. True; but what is the pertinency? This, said I: it seems likely that our rulers will have to make considerable use of falsehood and deception 459d for the benefit⁵ of their subjects. We said, I believe, that the use of that sort of thing was in the category of medicine. And that was right, he said. In our marriages, then, and the procreation of children, it seems there will be no slight need of this kind of right. How so? It follows from our former admissions, I said, that the best men must cohabit with the best women in as many cases as possible and the worst with the worst in the fewest, 459e and that the offspring of the one must be reared and that of the other not, if the flock⁶ is to be as perfect as possible. And the way in which all this is brought to pass must be unknown to any but the rulers, if, again, the herd of guardians is to be as free as possible from dissension. Most true, he said.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

κύνας θηρευτικοὺς κτλ. Cf. 451 D and Plut. Lyc. 15. 12 πολλὴν ἀβελτερίαν καὶ τῦφον ἐνεώρα τοῖς περὶ ταῦτα τῶν ἄλλων νομοθετήμασιν· οἳ κύνας μὲν καὶ ἵππους ὑπὸ τοῖς κρατίστοις τῶν ὀχείων βιβάζουσι—τὰς δὲ γυναῖκας ἐγκλεισάμενοι φρουροῦσιν κτλ. See also on 451 C, 460 C.

γίγνονται : ‘prove themselves to be’ (J. and C.), rather than ‘grow to be’ (D. and V.): cf. III 412 C οἱ δὲ γεωργῶν ἄριστοι ἆρ’ οὐ γεωργικώτατοι γίγνονται;

γεννᾶται : viz. τό τε—γένος, not τὸ γεννώμενον (suggested as an alternative explanation by J. and C.). For the sense cf. Xen. Mem. IV 23 (Jackson).

ἄκρων εἶναι . εἶναι is omitted by q and Flor. U. Without it, however, as Schneider points out, σφόδρα might be taken with δεῖ; whereas the sense requires it to go with ἄκρων. We should expect ἄκρους εἶναι—τοὺς ἄρχοντας, but the accusatives are attracted into the genitive by δεῖ. For an analogous idiom see III 407 B note

ἰατρὸν δέ που κτλ. μέν after δεομένοις balances δέ in ὅταν δὲ δή, and not ἀλλὰ—ὑπακούειν, which merely explains φαρμάκων by stating its antithesis. There is consequently no sufficient reason for changing ἐθελόντων into ἐθέλουσιν (with some inferior MSS, Stephanus, Madvig, and others), although ἐθέλουσιν would no doubt be more usual. For the genitive absolute cf. 458 D note I agree with Schneider and Campbell in taking the participle as neuter and not masculine (so Stallbaum and Jowett). ὑπακούειν is not ‘submit to’ but ‘respond to’—‘are willing to respond to,’ i.e. be cured by ‘a course of treatment without drugs’: cf. Prot. 325 A , and for δίαιτα contrasted with drugs III 406 D.

ἡγούμεθα κτλ. See cr. n. If εἶναι is retained after ἡγούμεθα, we must (with Ast in his second edition) understand Plato to mean ἡγούμεθα ἐξαρκεῖν καὶ φαυλότερον εἶναι, i.e. καίπερ φαυλότερον ὄντα, or else suppose that ἰατρὸν καὶ φαυλότερον εἶναι is an accusative and infinitive forming the subject to ἐξαρκεῖν. Neither explanation is simple or natural; and Stephanus, Madvig, and others have in my judgment some reason for expunging εἶναι, although its intrusion is not altogether easy to explain. It is possible enough that Plato wrote ἀνδρειοτέρου δεῖ <εἶναι> τοῦ ἰατροῦ in line 19 (cf. δεῖ ἄκρων εἶναι τῶν ἀρχόντων in B above); and the possibility is raised, I think, into a probability, when we thus obtain a natural explanation of the erroneous εἶναι after ἡγούμεθα. εἶναι following δεῖ appeared difficult, and was omitted, as it is in B above by q; a later scribe reinserted it in the wrong place. I have therefore ventured to transpose the word.

ἀνδρειοτέρου . It needs more courage to use drugs than to prescribe a regimen, because the risk is greater. Nothing could be more appropriate than Plato's use of the word, although it has been doubted by Richards. who proposed αὖ δριμυτέρου at first, and afterwards ἀνδρικωτέρου. With the general sentiment Poschenrieder ( die Plat. Dial. in ihrem Verhältnisse zu den Hippokr. Schr. p. 57) compares [Hippocr.] de victus ratione VI p. 592 c. 67 Littré προκαταλαμβάνειν τὴν <*>γίειαν, ὥστε τὰς νούσους μὴ προσπελάζειν, εἰ μή τις μεγάλα πάνυ ἐξαμαρτάνοι καὶ πολλάκις· ταῦτα δὲ φαρμάκων δέεται ἤδη.

ἔφαμεν . III 389 B. Cf. also II 382 C, D.

τὸ ὀρθὸν τοῦτο : i.e. this which you call right, viz. τὸ ψεῦδος. The medicinal lie frequently appears ( γίγνεται οὐκ ἐλάχιστον) in connexion with the marriages of the guardians, as Plato proceeds to shew. τοῖς γάμοις should not be made general; the reference is specific.

δεῖ μὲν κτλ. “The case resembles that of a breeding stud of horses and mares, to which Plato compares it: nothing else is wanted but the finest progeny attainable” Grote Plato III p. 205. It is worth while to compare Plato's arrangements with those of Aristophanes in Eccl. 616—634, in spite of the comedian's lewdness and buffoonery.

τῶν δὲ μή . Cf. 460 C and 461 C. It seems to me certain from these passages that Plato in this book lends his sanction to infanticide. This has often been denied, but without sufficient reason. The subject is discussed in App. IV.

ἀκρότατον . Cf. (with Schneider) σφόδρα ἄκρων in B above and ὡς ἀκρότατον in Laws 730 E. Stephanus' ἀκρατότατον is neat, but unnecessary, in spite of καθαρόν in 460 C.

ἀγέλη , like ποίμνιον, is intended “to recall the analogy of the lower animals” (J. and C.). Cf. 451 C note αὖ serves the same purpose, by suggesting that ἀγέλη has another and a more primitive signification.

ἑορταὶ κτλ. As the ἱερὸς γάμος was celebrated with a procession and sacrifices, ending with the κλίνη τῆς Ἥρας, so Plato's ἱεροὶ γάμοι are attended with religious rites and ceremonies: see 458 E note Plato apparently does not intend these State-marriages to last beyond the duration of a single festival. At each successive festival fresh unions would be tried.

Plato Republic 5.459

ed. John Burnet

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