Plato Republic 5.457

Paul Shorey (Translator)

Republic. Plato. Paul Shorey (Translator). Cambridge, MA. 1935-37.

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Current edition Perseus

Republic (English) (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).)

Editions (1)
Πολιτεία Perseus (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.) — 5.457 focus

Notes on the current edition

Republic

1. Cf. Rousseau, Lettre à d’Alembert,
Couvertes de l’honnêteté publique.
2. Cf. Pindar, fr. 209 Schroeder,
ἀτελῆ σοφίας καρπὸν δρέπ ειν
. Plato varies the quotation to suit his purpose.
3. This is one of the chief texts for the alleged utilitarianism of Plato, a question too complicated to be settled by anything less than a comparative study of the Protagoras, Gorgias, Phaedo, Philebus, Republic (IX) and Laws. ὠφέλιμον suggests benefit rather than utility. Cf. Introduction to second volume of this translation, and on 339 A-B.
4. Cf. Aeschylus Septem, in fine.
5. For this form of exaggeration Cf. on 414 C, 339 B.
6. On the whole topic cf. Introduction p. xxxiv, Lucian, Fugitivi 18
οὐκ εἰδότες ὅπως ὁ ἱερὸς ἐκεῖνος ἠξίου κοινὰς ἡγεῖσθαι τὰς γυναῖκας
, Epictetus fr. 53, p. 21, Rousseau, Emile, v:
je ne parle point de cette prétendue communauté de femmes dont le reproche tant répété prouve que ceux qui le lui font ne l’ont jamais lu.
But Rousseau dissents violently from what he calls
cette promiscuité civile qui confond partout les deux sexes dans les mêmes emplois.
Cf. further the denunciations of the Christian fathers passim, who are outdone by De Quincey’s
Otaheitian carnival of licentious appetite, connected with a contempt of human life which is excessive even for paganism.
Most of the obvious parallels between Plato and Aristophanes’ Ecclesiazusae follow as a matter of course from the very notion of communal marriage and supply no evidence for the dating of a supposed earlier edition of the whole or a part of the Republic. In any case the ideas of the Republic might have come to Aristophanes in conversation before publication; and the Greeks knew enough of the facts collected in such books as Westermarck’s Marriage, not to be taken altogether by surprise by Plato’s speculations. Cf. Herodotus iv. 104, and Aristotle Politics 1262 a 20. Cf. further Adam’s exhaustive discussion in the appendix to this book, Grube, The Marriage Laws in Plato’s Republic, Classical Quarterly, 1927, pp. 95 ff., Teichmüller, Literarische Fehden, i. p. 19 n., and the more recent literature collected in Praechter-Ueberweg, 12th ed. i. p. 207, Pöhlmann, Geschichte der Sozialenfrage und des Sozialsmus in der antiken Welt, ii. p. 578, Pohlenz, Aus Platon’s Werdezeit, pp. 225-228, C. Robert, Hermes lvii. pp. 351 ff.
7. A distinct suggestion of the topics of the useful and the possible in Aristotle’s Rhetoric.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

ἀρετὴν ‐‐ ἀμφιέσονται : ‘they will clothe themselves with excellence instead of garments,’ viz. by thus stripping for exercise, because τοῦ βελτίστου ἕνεκα γυμνάζονται: see B below. Jowett's translation “for their virtue will be their robe” is incorrect, and would require the future perfect instead of ἀμφιέσονται. The correct explanation is given by Schneider on p. 300 of his translation. ἀμφιέσονται (for the usual Attic ἀμφιοῦνται, which Herwerden would write) has a certain archaic effect (cf. I 330 B note), and the saying may be borrowed or adapted from some earlier author. The same metaphor is found in Plutarch Praec. Coniug. 10. 139 C τοὐναντίον γὰρ ἡ σώφρων ἀντενδύεται τὴν αἰδῶ (with reference to Hdt. I 8, a passage which is hardly likely—as Ast supposed— to have suggested Plato's phrase), but Plutarch's meaning is different from Plato's. So—except for the metaphor— is Tennyson's in the line quoted by Warren from Godiva “Then she rode forth, clothed on with chastity.”

κοινωνητέον πολέμου κτλ. The wives of the Sauromatae are described by Herodotus (IV 116) as ἐπὶ θήρην ἐπ’ ἵππων ἐκφοιτέουσαι ἅμα τοῖσι ἀνδράσι καὶ χωρὶς τῶν ἀνδρῶν, καὶ ἐς πόλεμον φοιτέουσαι καὶ στολὴν τὴν αὐτὴν τοῖσι ἀνδράσι φορέουσαι. Cf. also Laws 804 E—806 B. See also on 451 C ff.

δοτέον . There is no reason whatever for thinking (as some critics have thought) that Plato is not serious in making these regulations. Stobaeus ( Flor. 43. 100) has ἀποδοτέον: but see 452 A note

γελῶν ἀνήρ . ἀνήρ is said with a fine touch of scorn. It is difficult to read this passage without suspecting a personal reference, perhaps to some representative of the comic stage. J. and C. remark that jests of the kind objected to by Plato occur in Ar. Lys. 80 —83. See also next note and App. I. Spartan precedents are cited by Hermann-Thumser Gr. Staatsalt. p. 180 note 3.

ἀτελῆ ‐‐ καρπόν : ‘plucking unripe fruit of laughter.’ Pindar ( Fr. 209 B ergk) satirised physical speculation ( τοὺς φυσιολογοῦντας) in the words ἀτελῆ σοφίας δρέπων καρπόν, where σοφίας is a defining genitive, denoting not the tree, but the fruit. Pindar means that their σοφία is ἀτελής or inconsummatc—misses its mark —is no real σοφία at all. More suo Plato adapts the Pindaric fragment to his own purpose. The object of his attack is Comedy, and Comedy cultivates, not σοφία, but τὸ γελοῖον. Hence—according to the reading of the text—Plato replaces Pindar's σοφίας by the words τοῦ γελοίου. The humour of his adversary is ἀτελές or inconsummate—no real humour at all: for οὐδὲν οἶδεν—ἐφ’ ψ(= γελᾷ οὐδ’ ὅ τι πράττει. Cf. 452 D μάταιος ὃς γελοῖον ἄλλο τι ἡγεῖται ἢ τὸ κακόν. This interpretation assumes that σοφίας in Plato is a gloss interpolated to complete the quotation. See cr. n. and App. III.

κάλλιστα κτλ. The doctrine of this famous sentence, which sounds like a manifesto, and was characteristically selected by Grote as one of the mottoes to his Plato, is essentially Socratic: see especially Xen. Mem. IV 6. 8 , 9 and other passages quoted by Zeller^{4} II 1. pp. 149—153. Utilitarianism of this kind pervades the Republic, as Krohn has amply proved ( Pl. St. p. 370), and asserts itself even in the highest flights of Plato's idealism ( ἡ τοῦ ἀγαθοῦ ἰδέα—ᾗ δίκαια καὶ τἄλλα προσχρησάμενα χρήσιμα καὶ ὠφέλιμα γίγνεται VI 505 A). But even Socrates ennobles his utilitarianism by placing soul far above body in dignity and worth. In Plato utilitarianism becomes transfigured by Idealism and the doctrine of Immortality. Here it should be noted that καλόν combines, as often, the ideas of artistic fitness or propriety, and propriety of conduct. The moral sense of the Greeks lay in their appreciation of the beautiful.

διαφεύγειν . The present is less presumptuous than διαφυγεῖν conjectured by Herwerden. It is proved to be right by διαφεύγεις below, which Herwerden more suo ejects.

γυναικείου ‐‐ νόμου . If γυναικεῖος is equivalent only to περὶ γυναικῶν, it is strangely used. I suspect that Plato is playing on the musical sense of νόμος, as in VII 532 A: cf. IV 424 D, E notes γυναικείου νόμου—a melody sung by women— is thus exactly parallel to the γυναικεῖον δρᾶμα (451 C note), which it is clearly intended to recall.

λέγε is changed to φέρε by Cobet, to ἄγε by Richards. ἄγε may of course be right: the confusion occurs in the MSS of Plato Theaet. 162 D and 169 C (see Schanz's critical notes on these two passages), and doubtless elsewhere also. But in default of MS authority, it is safer to retain λέγε. Praestat lectio difficilior. ‘Say on: let me see it’ gives an excellent meaning, and could not have been otherwise expressed. The hortatory subjunctive of the first person is occasionally used after imperatives other than ἄγε and φέρε, as in Eur. Hipp. 567 . See Kühner Gr. Gr. II p. 185.

τὰς γυναῖκας κτλ. Plato imitates the emphasis and precision of a legal enactment. The Aristophanic parallel is καὶ ταύτας γὰρ κοινὰς ποιῶ τοῖς ἀνδράσι συγκατακεῖσθαι ( Eccl. 614, 615). See App. I.

οὐκ οἶμαι κτλ. Aristotle disappointed Plato's expectations: for he will not admit that such arrangements are even ὠφέλιμα ( Pol. B 1. 1261^{a} 2 ff.).

πλείστην ἂν κτλ. On the omission of ἄν see IV 437 B note and Prot. 316 C , with my note ad loc. Without ἄν, the reference must, I think, be to the past, in which case πλείστην—γενέσθαι will allude to some controversy which the doctrine of the community of wives may have occasioned before these words were written. But εὖ μάλ’ ἂν ἀμφισβητηθείη makes it pretty clear that Plato is thinking of the future.

λόγων σύστασιν : “sermonum conspirationem” Ficinus, rightly. The passage which follows is an excellent example of Socratic εἰρωνεία .

ὑφεκτέον ‐‐ δίκην : ‘I must pay the penalty,’ viz. for trying to run away. The natural penalty for running away is of course to have to stay and fight. Herwerden misses the point when he proposes to excise δίκην and understand λόγον .

ἔασόν με κτλ. For the metaphor in ἑορτάσαι and ἑστιᾶσθαι see I 354 A note ἑστιᾶσθαι ὑφ’ ἑαυτῶν is like our ‘castles in the air.’