Plato, Republic, Paul Shorey (Translator), 1.354

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[354] 354a But furthermore, he who lives well is blessed and happy, and he who does not the contrary. Of course. Then the just is happy and the unjust miserable. So be it, he said. But it surely does not pay to be miserable, but to be happy. Of course not. Never, then, most worshipful Thrasymachus, can injustice be more profitable than justice. Let this complete your entertainment, Socrates, at the festival of Bendis. A feast furnished by you, Thrasymachus, I said, now that you have become gentle with me and are no longer angry.¹ I have not dined well, however— 354b by my own fault, not yours. But just as gluttons² snatch at every dish that is handed along and taste it before they have properly enjoyed the preceding, so I, methinks, before finding the first object of our inquiry—what justice is—let go of that and set out to consider something about it, namely whether it is vice and ignorance or wisdom and virtue; and again, when later the view was sprung upon us that injustice is more profitable than justice I could not refrain from turning to that from the other topic. So that for me 354c the present outcome of the discussion³ is that I know nothing.⁴ For if I don’t know what the just is,⁵ I shall hardly know whether it is a virtue or not, and whether its possessor is or is not happy.

Republic. Plato. Paul Shorey (Translator). Cambridge, MA. 1935-37.

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Current edition Perseus

Republic (English) (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 5-6. Shorey, Paul, translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1935-37 (printing).)

Editions (1)

Πολιτεία Perseus (Platonis Opera Tomus IV: Tetralogia VIII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1905.) — 1.354 focus

[354] 354a
ἀλλὰ μὴν ὅ γε εὖ ζῶν μακάριός τε καὶ εὐδαίμων, ὁ δὲ μὴ τἀναντία.
πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
ὁ μὲν δίκαιος ἄρα εὐδαίμων, ὁ δʼ ἄδικος ἄθλιος.
ἔστω, ἔφη.
ἀλλὰ μὴν ἄθλιόν γε εἶναι οὐ λυσιτελεῖ, εὐδαίμονα δέ.
πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
οὐδέποτʼ ἄρα, ὦ μακάριε Θρασύμαχε, λυσιτελέστερον ἀδικία δικαιοσύνης.
ταῦτα δή σοι, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες, εἱστιάσθω ἐν τοῖς Βενδιδίοις.
ὑπὸ σοῦ γε, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὦ Θρασύμαχε, ἐπειδή μοι πρᾷος ἐγένου καὶ χαλεπαίνων ἐπαύσω. οὐ μέντοι καλῶς γε 354b εἱστίαμαι, διʼ ἐμαυτὸν ἀλλʼ οὐ διὰ σέ· ἀλλʼ ὥσπερ οἱ λίχνοι τοῦ ἀεὶ παραφερομένου ἀπογεύονται ἁρπάζοντες, πρὶν τοῦ προτέρου μετρίως ἀπολαῦσαι, καὶ ἐγώ μοι δοκῶ οὕτω, πρὶν ὃ τὸ πρῶτον ἐσκοποῦμεν εὑρεῖν, τὸ δίκαιον ὅτι ποτʼ ἐστίν, ἀφέμενος ἐκείνου ὁρμῆσαι ἐπὶ τὸ σκέψασθαι περὶ αὐτοῦ εἴτε κακία ἐστὶν καὶ ἀμαθία, εἴτε σοφία καὶ ἀρετή, καὶ ἐμπεσόντος αὖ ὕστερον λόγου, ὅτι λυσιτελέστερον ἡ ἀδικία τῆς δικαιοσύνης, οὐκ ἀπεσχόμην τὸ μὴ οὐκ ἐπὶ τοῦτο ἐλθεῖν ἀπʼ ἐκείνου, ὥστε μοι νυνὶ γέγονεν ἐκ τοῦ διαλόγου μηδὲν 354c εἰδέναι· ὁπότε γὰρ τὸ δίκαιον μὴ οἶδα ὅ ἐστιν, σχολῇ εἴσομαι εἴτε ἀρετή τις οὖσα τυγχάνει εἴτε καὶ οὔ, καὶ πότερον ὁ ἔχων αὐτὸ οὐκ εὐδαίμων ἐστὶν ἢ εὐδαίμων.

Notes on the current edition

Republic

1. For similar irony cf. Gorgias 489 D, Euthydemus 304 C.

2. Similarly Holmes ( Poet at the Breakfast Table, p. 108) of the poet:

He takes a bite out of the sunny side of this and the other, and ever stimulated and never satisfied,

etc. Cf. Lucian, Demosth. Encom. 18, Julian Orat. ii. p. 69 c, Polyb. iii. 57. 7.

3. Hirzel, Der Dialog, i. p. 4, n. 1, argues that διαλόγου here means inquiry ( Erorterung), not the dialogue with Thrasymachus.

4. For the profession of ignorance at the close of a Socratic dialogue Cf. Charmides 175 A-B, Lysis 222 D-E, Protagoras 361 A-B, Xenophon Memorabilia iv. 2. 39. Cf. also Introduction p. x.

5. Knowledge of the essence or definition must precede discussion of qualities and relations. Cf Meno 71 B, 86 D-E, Laches 190 B, Gorgias 448 E.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Republic (Plato. The Republic, Vol 1-2. Adam, James, editor. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1902-1903.) focus

Πλάτωνος Πολιτεία . On the name, characters, and date of action of the dialogue, see Introd. §§ 1, 2, 3.

ὅ γε εὖ ζῶν κτλ. The ambiguity (as it appears to us) of εὖ ζῆν and εὖ πράττειν is frequently used by Plato to suggest that the virtuous life is the happy one, e.g. Charm. 172 A , 173 D: see note on 335 B. Aristotle says that Plato was the first to establish this identification: see the third fragment of his elegies vv. 4—6 ed. Bergk ὃς μόνος ἢ πρῶτος θνητῶν κατέδειξεν ἐναργῶς | οἰκείῳ τε βίῳ καὶ μεθόδοισι λόγων | ὡς ἀγαθός τε καὶ εὐδαίμων ἅμα γίνεται ἀνήρ.

εἱστιάσθω . The metaphor occurs again in 352 B, V 458 A, IX 571 D. It is one of the formal links connecting the Timaeus with the Republic: see Tim. 17 A . Cf. Shakespeare Macbeth Act I Scene 4 “In his commendations I am fed: It is a banquet to me.”

Βενδιδείοις . See Introd. § 3.

ὑπὸ σοῦ γε κτλ. Plato seems to be making the amende honorable to Thrasymachus: cf. VI 498 C, D μὴ διάβαλλε— ἐμὲ καὶ Θρασύμαχον ἄρτι φίλους γεγονότας, οὐδὲ πρὸ τοῦ ἐχθροὺς γεγονότας.

παραφερομένου . Casaubon's conjecture περιφερομένου is neat, but inappropriate, the reference being to the successive courses at a feast, which were not usually carried round among the Greeks. In Athen. IV 33 the carrying round of viands is mentioned as an Egyptian custom: τρίτη δ’ ἐστὶν ἰδέα δείπνων αἰγυπτιακή, τραπεζῶν μὲν οὐ παρατιθεμένων, πινάκων δὲ περιφερομένων .

ἐγώ μοι δοκῶ κτλ. Lys. 222 E δέομαι οὖν ὥσπερ οἱ σοφοὶ ἐν τοῖς δικαστηρίοις, τὰ εἰρημένα ἅπαντα ἀναπεμπάσασθαι.

Plato Republic 1.354

Paul Shorey (Translator)

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