Plato, Protagoras, ed. John Burnet, 335

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[335]

ΣΩ.

ἀκήκοα γοῦν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὅτι σὺ οἷός τʼ εἶ καὶ αὐτὸς καὶ ἄλλον διδάξαι περὶ τῶν αὐτῶν καὶ μακρὰ λέγειν, ἐὰν βούλῃ, οὕτως ὥστε τὸν λόγον μηδέποτε ἐπιλιπεῖν, καὶ αὖ βραχέα 335 335a οὕτως ὥστε μηδένα σοῦ ἐν βραχυτέροις εἰπεῖν· εἰ οὖν μέλλεις ἐμοὶ διαλέξεσθαι, τῷ ἑτέρῳ χρῶ τρόπῳ πρός με, τῇ βραχυλογίᾳ.
ὦ Σώκρατες, ἔφη, ἐγὼ πολλοῖς ἤδη εἰς ἀγῶνα λόγων ἀφικόμην ἀνθρώποις, καὶ εἰ τοῦτο ἐποίουν ὃ σὺ κελεύεις, ὡς ὁ ἀντιλέγων ἐκέλευέν με διαλέγεσθαι, οὕτω διελεγόμην, οὐδενὸς ἂν βελτίων ἐφαινόμην οὐδʼ ἂν ἐγένετο Πρωταγόρου ὄνομα ἐν τοῖς Ἕλλησιν.
καὶ ἐγώ—ἔγνων γὰρ ὅτι οὐκ ἤρεσεν αὐτὸς αὑτῷ ταῖς 335b ἀποκρίσεσιν ταῖς ἔμπροσθεν, καὶ ὅτι οὐκ ἐθελήσοι ἑκὼν εἶναι ἀποκρινόμενος διαλέγεσθαι—ἡγησάμενος οὐκέτι ἐμὸν ἔργον εἶναι παρεῖναι ἐν ταῖς συνουσίαις, ἀλλά τοι, ἔφην, ὦ Πρωταγόρα, οὐδʼ ἐγὼ λιπαρῶς ἔχω παρὰ τὰ σοὶ δοκοῦντα τὴν συνουσίαν ἡμῖν γίγνεσθαι, ἀλλʼ ἐπειδὰν σὺ βούλῃ διαλέγεσθαι ὡς ἐγὼ δύναμαι ἕπεσθαι, τότε σοι διαλέξομαι. σὺ μὲν γάρ, ὡς λέγεται περὶ σοῦ, φῂς δὲ καὶ αὐτός, καὶ ἐν μακρολογίᾳ καὶ ἐν βραχυλογίᾳ οἷός τʼ εἶ συνουσίας ποιεῖσθαι 335c —σοφὸς γὰρ εἶ—ἐγὼ δὲ τὰ μακρὰ ταῦτα ἀδύνατος, ἐπεὶ ἐβουλόμην ἂν οἷός τʼ εἶναι. ἀλλὰ σὲ ἐχρῆν ἡμῖν συγχωρεῖν τὸν ἀμφότερα δυνάμενον, ἵνα ἡ συνουσία ἐγίγνετο· νῦν δὲ ἐπειδὴ οὐκ ἐθέλεις καὶ ἐμοί τις ἀσχολία ἐστὶν καὶ οὐκ ἂν οἷός τʼ εἴην σοι παραμεῖναι ἀποτείνοντι μακροὺς λόγους—ἐλθεῖν γάρ ποί με δεῖ—εἶμι· ἐπεὶ καὶ ταῦτʼ ἂν ἴσως οὐκ ἀηδῶς σου ἤκουον.
καὶ ἅμα ταῦτʼ εἰπὼν ἀνιστάμην ὡς ἀπιών· καί μου ἀνισταμένου ἐπιλαμβάνεται ὁ Καλλίας τῆς χειρὸς τῇ δεξιᾷ, 335d τῇ δʼ ἀριστερᾷ ἀντελάβετο τοῦ τρίβωνος τουτουΐ, καὶ εἶπεν· οὐκ ἀφήσομέν σε, ὦ Σώκρατες· ἐὰν γὰρ σὺ ἐξέλθῃς, οὐχ ὁμοίως ἡμῖν ἔσονται οἱ διάλογοι. δέομαι οὖν σου παραμεῖναι ἡμῖν· ὡς ἐγὼ οὐδʼ ἂν ἑνὸς ἥδιον ἀκούσαιμι ἢ σοῦ τε καὶ Πρωταγόρου διαλεγομένων. ἀλλὰ χάρισαι ἡμῖν πᾶσιν.
καὶ ἐγὼ εἶπον—ἤδη δὲ ἀνειστήκη ὡς ἐξιών—ὦ παῖ Ἱππονίκου, ἀεὶ μὲν ἔγωγέ σου τὴν φιλοσοφίαν ἄγαμαι, ἀτὰρ 335e καὶ νῦν ἐπαινῶ καὶ φιλῶ, ὥστε βουλοίμην ἂν χαρίζεσθαί σοι, εἴ μου δυνατὰ δέοιο·

Protagoras. Plato. ed. John Burnet. Oxford. 1903.

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Current edition Perseus

Πρωταγόρας (Greek) (Platonis Opera, Tomus III: Tetralogia V-VII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1903.)

Translations (1)

Protagoras Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 2. Lamb, W.R.M., translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1924 (printing).) — 335 focus

Soc.

Well, for instance, I have heard, I said, that you yourself are able, in treating one and the same subject, not only to instruct another person in it but to speak on it at length, if you choose, without ever being at a loss for matter; or again briefly, 335a so as to yield to no one in brevity of expression. So, if you are going to argue with me, employ with me the latter method, that of brevity.
Socrates, he said, I have undertaken in my time many contests of speech, and if I were to do what you demand, and argue just in the way that my opponent demanded, I should not be held superior to anyone nor would Protagoras have made a name among the Greeks.
Then, as I saw that he had not been quite satisfied with himself in making his former answers, and that he would not readily 335b accept the part of answerer in debate, I considered it was not my business to attend his meetings further, and remarked: But you know, Protagoras, I too feel uncomfortable about our having this discussion against your inclination; but when you agree to argue in such a way that I can follow, then I will argue with you. For you—as people relate of you, and you yourself assert—are able to hold a discussion in the form of either long or short speeches; you are a man of knowledge: 335c but I have no ability for these long speeches, though I could wish that I had it. Surely you, who are proficient in both ways, ought to have made us this concession, that so we might have had our debate. But now that you refuse, and I am somewhat pressed for time and could not stay to hear you expatiate at any length—for I have an appointment—I will be off; though I daresay I should be happy enough to hear your views.
With these words I rose as if to go away; but, as I was getting up, 335d Callias laid hold of my arm with his right hand, and grasped this cloak of mine with his left, and said: We will not let you go, Socrates; for if you leave us our discussions will not go so well. I beg you therefore to stay with us, for there is nothing I would rather hear than an argument between you and Protagoras. Come, you must oblige us all.
Then I said (I was now standing up as though to go out): Son of Hipponicus, I always admire your love of knowledge, but especially do I commend and love it now, 335e so that I should be very glad to oblige you if you asked of me something that I could do:

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Protagoras (Plato. Platonis Protagoras. Adam, James; Adam, Adela Marion, editors. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1921.) focus

ὡς ὁ ἀντιλέγων—οὕτω διελεγόμην . Asyndeton is frequent in such sentences: cf. Rep. II. 359B (cited by Heindorf) εἰ τοιόνδε ποιήσαιμεν τῇ διανοίᾳ, δόντες ἐξουσίαν—εἶτ’ ἐπακολουθήσαιμεν κτλ. See on 311E

ἐγένετο Πρωταγόρου ὄνομα . With ἐγένετο ὄνομα (for which Kroschel reads ἐλέγετο ὄνομα ) cf. Apol. 20D τί ποτ’ ἔστιν τοῦτο ὃ ἐμοὶ πεποίηκε τό τε ὄνομα καὶ τὴν διαβολήν: γίγνεσθαι is the usual passive to ποιεῖν . With the sentence generally cf. Euthyphr. 4E-5A, where Euthyphro says οὐδὲν γὰρ ἄν μου ὄφελος εἴη, ὦ Σώκπατες, οὐδέ τῳ ἂν διαφέποι Εὐθύφπων τῶν ρολλῶν ἀνθπώρων, εἰ μὴ κτλ. : see note in loc. for more parallels.

οὐκ ἤρεσεν—καὶ—οὐκ ἐθελήσοι . The combination of indicative and optative in the same sentence in indirect speech is fairly common: Goodwin, M.T. p. 261, § 670.

ἡγησάμενος . Heindorf conjectures ἡγησάμενος οὖν , but οὖν may be dispensed with after a short parenthesis.

τὰ μακρὰ ταῦτα ἀδύνατος . Meno, 94B ἴνα δὲ μὴ ὀλίγους οἴη? καὶ τοὺς φαυλοτάτους Ἀθηναίων ἀδυνάτους γεγονέναι τοῦτο τὸ πρᾶγμα; Rep. VI. 478A ἐφ’ ἑτέρῳ ἄρα ἕτερόν τι δυναμένη ἑκατέρα αὐτῶν πέφυκεν.

ἵνα συνουσία ἐγίγνετο . For this construction see note on Crito, 44D εἰ γὰρ ὤφελον—οἷοί τ’ εἶναι—ἴνα οἷοί τ’ ἦσαν. A secondary tense of the indicative is found with ἴνα and ὅπως (without ἄν ) in final clauses dependent on a wish which can no longer be fulfilled, or on the apodosis to an impossible protasis: Goodwin, M.T. p. 120, § 333. The idiom is frequent in Plato and sometimes corrupted by scribes, e.g. Meno, 89B ἡμεῖς ἂν παραλαβόντες—ἐφυλάττομεν—ἵνα μηδεὶς αὐτοὺς διέφθειρεν, ἀλλ’ ἐπειδὴ ἀφίκοιντο εἰς τὴν ἡλικίαν, χρήσιμοι γίγνοιντο ταῖς πόλεσιν—where perhaps we should read ἀφίκοντο and ἐγίγνοντο . See Cobet's Variae Lectiones, pp. 102, 359.

τρίβωνος . The ordinary clothing of an Athenian consisted of a χιτών , or shirt, with a ἱμάτιον or short mantle worn above it. The τρίβων was a short cloak of coarse material worn by the Spartans and sometimes by the Laconisers in other states to take the place of both χιτών and ἱμάτιον . It was the ordinary garment of Socrates ( Symp. 219B ), and was afterwards much affected by the more ascetic philosophers, such as the Cynics (Diog. Laert. VI. I. 13). Its use was supposed to be a mark of sturdy simplicity and austerity of manners.

οὐδ’ ἂν ἑνός . The two parts of οὐδείς are sometimes separated by ἄν or a preposition, often with the effect (as here) of increasing the emphasis by making οὐδέ = ne—quidem, cf. below 343D οὐδὲ πρὸς ἔνα λόγον .

ὦ παῖ Ἱππονίκου : see on 328D above. With ἀεὶ μὲν— ἀτάρ Sauppe compares Rep. II. 367E καὶ ἐγὼ ἀκούσας ἀεὶ μὲν δὴ τὴν φύσιν τοῦ τε Γλαύκωνος καὶ τοῦ Ἁδειμάντου ἠγάμην, ἀτὰπ οὖν καὶ τότε πάνυ γε ἥσθην.

φιλοσοφίαν . The original meaning of the word φιλοσοφία was ‘love of knowledge for its own sake’, no particular kind of knowledge being specified. The verb φιλοσοφεῖν is first found in Hdt. I. 30 ὡς φιλοσοφέων γῆν πολλὴν θεωρίης εἵνεκεν ἐπελήλυθας . In the present passage (as in Thuc. II. 40 φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας ) the word retains its original wider meaning, viz, ‘love of knowledge’ in general; but side by side with this in Plato it has the more restricted meaning of ‘Philosophy’, e.g. Rep. VI. 496A πάνσμικρον δή τι. . .λείπεται τῶν κατ’ ἀξίαν ὁμιλούντων φιλοσοφίᾳ. The wider meaning is also found in Aristotle, where he calls Theology the ‘Highest Study’ ( πρώτη φιλοσοφία ), and elsewhere.

Κρίσωνι . Criso of Himera, a famous σταδιοδρόμος , won three times at Olympia, viz. Olymp. 83, 84 and 85 (448, 444 and 440 B.C.). His chastity during his prime as an athlete is mentioned in Laws, VIII. 840A . δρομεῖ ἀκμάζοντι is rejected by some editors, but δρομεῖ should be taken with Ἱμεραίῳ and ἀκμάζοντι with ἕπεσθαι : ‘to keep up with Criso, the runner of Himera, when he was in his prime’—presumably at the assumed date of this dialogue he was past his ἀκμή .

δολιχοδρόμων : δολιχοδρόμοι εἰσὶν οἱ τὸν δόλιχον τρέχοντες , says the scholiast: see on 329A

ἡμεροδρόμων . Heindorf quotes Livy, XXXI. 24. 4 ‘Hemerodromos vocant Graeci ingens die uno cursu emetientes spatium.’ Such was Phidippides; see Hdt. VI. 105 ἡμεροδρόμην τε καὶ τοῦτο μελετῶντα .

διαθεῖν τε καὶ ἕπεσθαι. δια‐in compounds frequently denotes competition: for διαθεῖν cf. Theaet. 148C εἶτα διαθέων τοῦ ἀκμάζοντος καὶ ταχίστου ἡττήθης. As the emphasis is on ἕπεσθαι (‘keep up with’), διαθεῖν τε καὶ ἕπεσθαι is equivalent to διαθέοντα ἕπεσθαι : cf. note on 317C ἐνδείξασθαι καὶ καλλωπίσασθαι , where καὶ καλλωπίσασθαι is (so to speak) enclitic as διαθεῖν τε καί is proclitic (cf. the English ‘Some—must be talked over by the hour before they could reach the humblest decision, which they only left the office to return again (ten minutes later) and rescind ’).

Plato Protagoras 335

ed. John Burnet

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