Plato, Protagoras, ed. John Burnet, 330

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[330]

ΣΩ.

ἔστιν γὰρ οὖν καὶ ταῦτα μόρια 330 330a τῆς ἀρετῆς, ἔφην ἐγώ, σοφία τε καὶ ἀνδρεία;— πάντων μάλιστα δήπου, ἔφη· καὶ μέγιστόν γε ἡ σοφία τῶν μορίων.—ἕκαστον δὲ αὐτῶν ἐστιν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἄλλο, τὸ δὲ ἄλλο;— ναί.—ἦ καὶ δύναμιν αὐτῶν ἕκαστον ἰδίαν ἔχει; ὥσπερ τὰ τοῦ προσώπου, οὐκ ἔστιν ὀφθαλμὸς οἷον τὰ ὦτα, οὐδʼ ἡ δύναμις αὐτοῦ ἡ αὐτή· οὐδὲ τῶν ἄλλων οὐδέν ἐστιν οἷον τὸ ἕτερον οὔτε κατὰ τὴν δύναμιν οὔτε κατὰ τὰ ἄλλα· ἆρʼ οὖν οὕτω καὶ τὰ τῆς ἀρετῆς μόρια οὐκ ἔστιν τὸ ἕτερον οἷον τὸ 330b ἕτερον, οὔτε αὐτὸ οὔτε ἡ δύναμις αὐτοῦ; ἢ δῆλα δὴ ὅτι οὕτως ἔχει, εἴπερ τῷ παραδείγματί γε ἔοικε;— ἀλλʼ οὕτως, ἔφη, ἔχει, ὦ Σώκρατες.—καὶ ἐγὼ εἶπον· οὐδὲν ἄρα ἐστὶν τῶν τῆς ἀρετῆς μορίων ἄλλο οἷον ἐπιστήμη, οὐδʼ οἷον δικαιοσύνη, οὐδʼ οἷον ἀνδρεία, οὐδʼ οἷον σωφροσύνη, οὐδʼ οἷον ὁσιότης.—οὐκ ἔφη.—φέρε δή, ἔφην ἐγώ, κοινῇ σκεψώμεθα ποῖόν τι αὐτῶν ἐστιν ἕκαστον. πρῶτον μὲν τὸ τοιόνδε· 330c ἡ δικαιοσύνη πρᾶγμά τί ἐστιν ἢ οὐδὲν πρᾶγμα; ἐμοὶ μὲν γὰρ δοκεῖ· τί δὲ σοί;— κἀμοί, ἔφη.—τί οὖν; εἴ τις ἔροιτο ἐμέ τε καὶ σέ· ὦ Πρωταγόρα τε καὶ Σώκρατες, εἴπετον δή μοι, τοῦτο τὸ πρᾶγμα ὃ ὠνομάσατε ἄρτι, ἡ δικαιοσύνη, αὐτὸ τοῦτο δίκαιόν ἐστιν ἢ ἄδικον; ἐγὼ μὲν ἂν αὐτῷ ἀποκριναίμην ὅτι δίκαιον· σὺ δὲ τίνʼ ἂν ψῆφον θεῖο; τὴν αὐτὴν ἐμοὶ ἢ ἄλλην;— τὴν αὐτήν, ἔφη.—ἔστιν ἄρα τοιοῦτον ἡ δικαιοσύνη οἷον δίκαιον εἶναι, φαίην ἂν ἔγωγε ἀποκρινόμενος τῷ 330d ἐρωτῶντι· οὐκοῦν καὶ σύ;— ναί, ἔφη.—εἰ οὖν μετὰ τοῦτο ἡμᾶς ἔροιτο· οὐκοῦν καὶ ὁσιότητά τινά φατε εἶναι; φαῖμεν ἄν, ὡς ἐγᾦμαι. —ναί, ἦ δʼ ὅς.— οὐκοῦν φατε καὶ τοῦτο πρᾶγμά τι εἶναι; φαῖμεν ἄν· ἢ οὔ;—καὶ τοῦτο συνέφη.— πότερον δὲ τοῦτο αὐτὸ τὸ πρᾶγμά φατε τοιοῦτον πεφυκέναι οἷον ἀνόσιον εἶναι ἢ οἷον ὅσιον; ἀγανακτήσαιμʼ ἂν ἔγωγʼ, ἔφην, τῷ ἐρωτήματι, καὶ εἴποιμʼ ἄν· εὐφήμει, ὦ ἄνθρωπε· σχολῇ μεντἄν τι ἄλλο ὅσιον εἴη, εἰ μὴ αὐτή 330e γε ἡ ὁσιότης ὅσιον ἔσται. τί δὲ σύ; οὐχ οὕτως ἂν ἀποκρίναιο;— πάνυ μὲν οὖν, ἔφη.
εἰ οὖν μετὰ τοῦτο εἴποι ἐρωτῶν ἡμᾶς· πῶς οὖν ὀλίγον πρότερον ἐλέγετε; ἆρʼ οὐκ ὀρθῶς ὑμῶν κατήκουσα; ἐδόξατέ μοι φάναι τὰ τῆς ἀρετῆς μόρια εἶναι οὕτως ἔχοντα πρὸς ἄλληλα, ὡς οὐκ εἶναι τὸ ἕτερον αὐτῶν οἷον τὸ ἕτερον·

Protagoras. Plato. ed. John Burnet. Oxford. 1903.

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Current edition Perseus

Πρωταγόρας (Greek) (Platonis Opera, Tomus III: Tetralogia V-VII. Burnet, John, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1903.)

Translations (1)

Protagoras Perseus (Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 2. Lamb, W.R.M., translator. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1924 (printing).) — 330 focus

Soc.

Then are these also parts of virtue, 330a I asked—wisdom and courage?
Most certainly, I should say, he replied; and of the parts, wisdom is the greatest.
Each of them, I proceeded, is distinct from any other?
Yes.
Does each also have its particular function? Just as, in the parts of the face, the eye is not like the ears, nor is its function the same; nor is any of the other parts like another, in its function or in any other respect: in the same way, are the parts of virtue unlike each other, 330b both in themselves and in their functions? Are they not evidently so, if the analogy holds?
Yes, they are so, Socrates, he said.
So then, I went on, among the parts of virtue, no other part is like knowledge, or like justice, or like courage, or like temperance, or like holiness.
He agreed.
Come now, I said, let us consider together what sort of thing is each of these parts. First let us ask, 330c is justice something, or not a thing at all? I think it is; what do you say?
So do I, he replied.
Well then, suppose someone should ask you and me: Protagoras and Socrates, pray tell me this—the thing you named just now, justice, is that itself just or unjust? I should reply, it is just: what would your verdict be? The same as mine or different?
The same, he said.
Then justice, 330d I should say in reply to our questioner, is of a kind that is just: would you also?
Yes, he said.
Now suppose he proceeded to ask us: Do you also speak of a holiness? We should say we do, I fancy.
Yes, he said.
Then do you call this a thing also? We should say we do, should we not?
He assented again.
Do you say this thing itself is of such nature as to be unholy, or holy? For my part I should be annoyed at this question, I said, and should answer: Hush, my good sir! 330e It is hard to see how anything could be holy, if holiness itself is not to be holy! And you—would you not make the same reply?
Certainly I would, he said.
Now suppose he went on to ask us: Well, and what of your statement a little while since? Perhaps I did not hear you aright, but I understood you two to say that the parts of virtue are in such a relation to each other that one of them is not like another.

Commentary

Commentary on Plato, Protagoras (Plato. Platonis Protagoras. Adam, James; Adam, Adela Marion, editors. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1921.) focus

καὶ μέγιστόν γε σοφία : Protagoras speaks as a σοφιστής , glorifying his profession.

ἄλλο, τὸ δὲ ἄλλο : equivalent to τὸ μὲν ἄλλο, τὸ δὲ ἄλλο. τὸ δέ, τὰ δέ , etc., without preceding τὸ μέν, τὰ μέν , etc., is a frequent idiom. Crat. 399A πολλάκις ἐπεμβάλλομεν γράμματα, τὰ δ’ ἐξαιροῦμεν, Soph. O.T. 1229 οἶμαι γὰρ οὔτ’ ἂν Ἴστρον οὔτε Φᾶσιν ἂν νίψαι καθαπμῷ τήνδε τὴν στέγην ὅσα κεύθει, τὰ δ’ αὐτίκ’ εἰς τὸ φῶς φανεῖ κακά .

ὥσπερ τὰ τοῦ προσώπου : we have placed the mark of interrogation before ὥσπερ : see on ἄλλο γε in 311E The sentence ὥσπερ τὰ τοῦ προσώπου οὐκ ἔστιν ὀφθαλμὸς οἷον τὰ ὦτα thus corresponds exactly to ἆρ’ οὖν οὕτω καὶ τὰ τῆς ἀρετῆς μόρια οὐκ ἔστιν τὸ ἕτερον οἷον τὸ ἕτερον . For τὰ τοῦ προσώπου followed by its parts in the same case cf. below 349A ἐκεῖνα—τὰ μέν—τὰ δέ and Theaet. 151A οἷς ὅταν πάλιν ἔλθωσι—ἐνίοις μὲν—ἀποκωλύει συνεῖναι, ἐνίοις δὲ ἐᾷ. For the asyndeton regular in explanatory and ampliative clauses see note on Apol. 22A .

ἀλλ’ οὕτως, ἔφη, ἔχει, ὦ Σώκρατες . So T: B has only ἀλλ’ οὕτως, ἔφη . The longer form of answer is more suited to Protagoras' style.

ἡ δικαιοσύνη πρᾶγμά τί ἐστιν . Cf. below 332A ἀφροσύνην τι καλεῖς ; 332C 358D Plato frequently begins a train of reasoning in this way.

καὶ ἐμοί : so T: B has καί μοι. καὶ ἐμοί seems slightly better than κἀμοί , as forming a more effective balance to ἐμοὶ μέν in the same line.

ὦ Πρωταγόρα τε καὶ Σώκρατες : but ἐμέ τε καὶ σέ as Greek usage requires. Protagoras is addressed first on the principle seniores priores and honoris causa ; contrast 311D and cf. 353A (Kroschel).

εἴπετον : contrast 311D εἰπέ μοι, ὦ Σώκρατές τε καὶ Ἱππόκρατες , where see note. The dual gives prominence to the notion in κοινῇ σκεψώμεθα (l. 29). The connection of this part of the argument with the rest is this: in 330A 330B it is said that no one part of virtue is οἷον τὸ ἕτερον , e.g. that δικαιοσύνη is not οἷον ὁσιότης (major premise); here it is said that δικαιοσύνη is δίκαιον, ὁσιότης ὅσιον (minor premise): from which the conclusion (in the next chapter) is drawn that δικαιοσύνη is not ὅσιον , nor ὁσιότης δίκαιον . This stage of the argument is therefore neither ‘tautological nor unmeaning’, as Grote (quoted by Turner) asserts.

οἷον ἀνόσιον εἷναι ἢ οἷον ὅσιον . Notice the identification of the ‘not ὅσιον ’ with ἀνόσιον : see below on 331A

εὐφήμει, ὦ ἄνθρωπε. ὦ ἄνθρωπεis somewhat brusque: so ὦ ἄνθρωποι in 314D above. ἄνθρωπε without ὦ would border on rudeness: e.g. Gorg. 518C ἴσως ἂν οὖν ἠγανάκτεις, εἴ σοι ἔλεγον, ἄνθρωπε, οὐδὲν ἐπαΐεις περὶ γυμναστικῆς. εὐφήμειis frequent to express shocked surprise, real or feigned: e.g. Rep. I. 329C Meno, 91B ( Ἡράκλεις, εὐφήμει, ὦ Σώκρατες ), Gorg. 469A, Euthyd. 301A .

Plato Protagoras 330

ed. John Burnet

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