161a
I think so.
Well then, I said, are you not convinced that Homer is right in saying—
Hom. Od. 17.347
I am, he said.
Then it would seem that modesty is not good, and good.
Apparently.
But temperance is good, if its presence makes men good, and not bad.
It certainly seems to me to be as you say.
So temperance cannot be modesty, if it 161b is in fact good, while modesty is no more good than evil.
Why, I think, he said, Socrates, that is correctly stated; but there is another view of temperance on which I would like to have your opinion. I remembered just now what I once heard someone say, that temperance might be doing one’s own business. I ask you, then, do you think he is right in saying this?
You rascal, I said, you have heard it from Critias here, 161c or some other of our wise men!
Seemingly, said Critias, from some other; for indeed he did not from me.
But what does it matter, Socrates, said Charmides, from whom I heard it?
Not at all, I replied; for in any case we have not to consider who said it, but whether it is a true saying or no.
Now you speak rightly, he said.
Yes, on my word, I said: but I shall be surprised if we can find out how it stands; for it looks like a kind of riddle.
Why so? he asked.
Because, I replied, presumably the speaker of the words 161d temperance is doing one’s own business did not mean them quite as he spoke them. Or do you consider that the scribe does nothing when he writes or reads?
I rather consider that he does something, he replied. And does the scribe, in your opinion, write and read his own name only, and teach you boys to do the same with yours? Or did you write your enemies’ names just as much as your own and your friends’?
Just as much.
Well, were you meddlesome or intemperate 161e in doing this?
Not at all.
And you know you were not doing your own business, if writing and reading are doing something.
Why, so they are.
And indeed medical work, my good friend, and building and weaving and producing anything whatever that is the work of any art, I presume is doing something.
Certainly.
I think so.
Well then, I said, are you not convinced that Homer is right in saying—
Modesty, no good mate for a needy man?
I am, he said.
Then it would seem that modesty is not good, and good.
Apparently.
But temperance is good, if its presence makes men good, and not bad.
It certainly seems to me to be as you say.
So temperance cannot be modesty, if it 161b is in fact good, while modesty is no more good than evil.
Why, I think, he said, Socrates, that is correctly stated; but there is another view of temperance on which I would like to have your opinion. I remembered just now what I once heard someone say, that temperance might be doing one’s own business. I ask you, then, do you think he is right in saying this?
You rascal, I said, you have heard it from Critias here, 161c or some other of our wise men!
Seemingly, said Critias, from some other; for indeed he did not from me.
But what does it matter, Socrates, said Charmides, from whom I heard it?
Not at all, I replied; for in any case we have not to consider who said it, but whether it is a true saying or no.
Now you speak rightly, he said.
Yes, on my word, I said: but I shall be surprised if we can find out how it stands; for it looks like a kind of riddle.
Why so? he asked.
Because, I replied, presumably the speaker of the words 161d temperance is doing one’s own business did not mean them quite as he spoke them. Or do you consider that the scribe does nothing when he writes or reads?
I rather consider that he does something, he replied. And does the scribe, in your opinion, write and read his own name only, and teach you boys to do the same with yours? Or did you write your enemies’ names just as much as your own and your friends’?
Just as much.
Well, were you meddlesome or intemperate 161e in doing this?
Not at all.
And you know you were not doing your own business, if writing and reading are doing something.
Why, so they are.
And indeed medical work, my good friend, and building and weaving and producing anything whatever that is the work of any art, I presume is doing something.
Certainly.
Charmides. Plato. Walter Rangeley Maitland Lamb (Translator). Cambridge, MA. 1927.
Sponsored by Perseus Project, Tufts University.
Funding provided by The Annenberg CPB/Project.