Plato Lovers 133

  Then the two striplings, overhearing us speak somewhat like this, were silent, and ceasing from their own contention they became listeners to ours. What their lovers’ sensations were, I do not know, but I myself, at any rate, was staggered; for every time I am staggered by handsome young people. It seemed to me, however, that my young friend too was in as great a flutter as myself; but nevertheless he answered me in a most ambitious spirit: Why, of course, Socrates, he said, if I should ever consider philosophizing to be shameful, I should not account myself so much as a man, 133b nor anyone else either who was disposed to think so. Here he pointed to his rival lover, and spoke with a loud voice, in order that his favorite might hear every word.

  Then I remarked: So philosophizing seems to you to be honorable?

  Quite so, he said.

  Well now, I said; does it seem to you possible to know whether anything is honorable or shameful without knowing what it is fundamentally?

  No, he said. 133c Then do you know, I went on, what philosophizing is?

  Certainly I do, said he.

  Then what is it? I asked.

  Why, just what Solon called it; you know it was Solon who said: Solon Fr. 18 —and I agree with him that a man who intends to philosophize should in this way be ever learning something or other, whether he be younger or older, in order that he may learn as many things as possible in his life. Now at first I felt there was something in his reply, but then, on second thoughts, I asked him whether he considered philosophy to be much learning. 133d To which he answered: Certainly.

  And do you consider philosophy to be merely honorable, I asked, or good as well?

  Good as well, he said: very much so.

  Then do you observe this as peculiar to philosophy, or do you find it similarly in everything else? For example, do you consider the love of athletics to be not merely honorable, but good as well, or do you not?

  Whereupon he, most slily, gave a double answer: To him my statement must be neither; but to you, Socrates, I acknowledge it to be both honorable and good: 133e for I consider this the right view.

  Then I asked him: Well now, in athletics, do you consider that much exercise is love of athletics?

  To which he replied: Certainly, just as in philosophizing I consider much learning to be philosophy.

  Then I said: And do you then consider that the lovers of athletics desire anything else than that which will cause them to be in good bodily condition?

  Only that, he replied.

  And does much exercise, I asked, cause them to be in good bodily condition?