129a
129b
129c
Alc.
Impossible.Soc.
Well, and is it an easy thing to know oneself, and was it a mere scamp who inscribed these words on the temple at Delphi ; or is it a hard thing, and not a task for anybody?Alc.
I have often thought, Socrates, that it was for anybody; but often, too, that it was very hard.Soc.
But, Alcibiades, whether it is easy or not, here is the fact for us all the same: if we have that knowledge, we are like to know what pains to take over ourselves; but if we have it not, we never can.Alc.
That is so.Soc.
Come then, in what way can the same-in-itself 1 be discovered? For thus we may discover what we are ourselves; whereas if we remain in ignorance of it we must surely fail.Alc.
Rightly spoken.Soc.
Steady, then, in Heaven’s name! To whom are you talking now? To me, are you not?Alc.
Yes.Soc.
And I in turn to you ?Alc.
Yes.Soc.
Then the talker is Socrates?Alc.
To be sure.Soc.
And the hearer, Alcibiades?Alc.
Yes.Soc.
And Socrates uses speech in talking?Alc.
Of course.Soc.
And you call talking and using speech the same thing, I suppose.Alc.
To be sure.Soc.
But the user and the thing he uses are different, are they not?Alc.
How do you mean?Soc.
For instance, I suppose a shoemaker uses a round tool, and a square one, and others, when he cuts.Alc.
Yes.Soc.
And the cutter and user is quite different from what he uses in cutting?Alc.
Of course.Soc.
And in the same way what the harper uses in harping will be different from the harper himself?Alc.
Yes.Soc.
Well then, that is what I was asking just now—whether the user 129d and what he uses are always, in your opinion, two different things.Alc.
They are.Soc.
Then what are we to say of the shoemaker? Does he cut with his tools only, or with his hands as well?Alc.
With his hands as well.Soc.
So he uses these also?Alc.
Yes.Soc.
Does he use his eyes, too, in his shoe-making?Alc.
Yes.Soc.
And we admit that the user and what he uses are different things?Alc.
Yes.Soc.
Then the shoemaker and the harper are different from 129e the hands and eyes that they use for their work?Alc.
Apparently.Soc.
And man uses his whole body too?Alc.
To be sure.Soc.
And we said that the user and what he uses are different?Alc.
Yes.Soc.
So man is different from his own body?Alc.
It seems so.Soc.
Then whatever is man?Alc.
I cannot say.Soc.
Oh, but you can—that he is the user of the body.Alc.
Yes.Alcibiades 1. Plato. Walter Rangeley Maitland Lamb (Translator). Cambridge, MA. 1927.
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