Xenophon, Memorabilia, ed. Edgar Carew Marchant, 3.5

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[1]
Περικλεῖ δέ ποτε τῷ τοῦ πάνυ Περικλέους υἱῷ διαλεγόμενος, ἐγώ τοι, ἔφη, ὦ Περίκλεις, ἐλπίδα ἔχω σοῦ στρατηγήσαντος ἀμείνω τε καὶ ἐνδοξοτέραν τὴν πόλιν εἰς τὰ πολεμικὰ ἔσεσθαι καὶ τῶν πολεμίων κρατήσειν. καὶ ὁ Περικλῆς, βουλοίμην ἄν, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἃ λέγεις· ὅπως δὲ ταῦτα γένοιτʼ ἄν, οὐ δύναμαι γνῶναι. βούλει οὖν, ἔφη ὁ Σωκράτης, διαλογιζόμενοι περὶ αὐτῶν ἐπισκοπῶμεν ὅπου ἤδη τὸ δυνατόν ἐστι;

[2] βούλομαι, ἔφη. οὐκοῦν οἶσθα, ἔφη, ὅτι πλήθει μὲν οὐδὲν μείους εἰσὶν Ἀθηναῖοι Βοιωτῶν; οἶδα γάρ, ἔφη. σώματα δὲ ἀγαθὰ καὶ καλὰ πότερον ἐκ Βοιωτῶν οἴει πλείω ἂν ἐκλεχθῆναι ἢ ἐξ Ἀθηνῶν; οὐδὲ ταύτῃ μοι δοκοῦσι λείπεσθαι. εὐμενεστέρους δὲ ποτέρους ἑαυτοῖς εἶναι νομίζεις; Ἀθηναίους ἔγωγε· Βοιωτῶν μὲν γὰρ πολλοὶ πλεονεκτούμενοι ὑπὸ Θηβαίων δυσμενῶς αὐτοῖς ἔχουσιν, Ἀθήνησι δὲ οὐδὲν ὁρῶ τοιοῦτον.

[3] ἀλλὰ μὴν φιλοτιμότατοί γε καὶ φιλοφρονέστατοι πάντων εἰσίν· ἅπερ οὐχ ἥκιστα παροξύνει κινδυνεύειν ὑπὲρ εὐδοξίας τε καὶ πατρίδος. οὐδὲ ἐν τούτοις Ἀθηναῖοι μεμπτοί. καὶ μὴν προγόνων γε καλὰ ἔργα οὐκ ἔστιν οἷς μείζω καὶ πλείω ὑπάρχει ἢ Ἀθηναίοις· ᾧ πολλοὶ ἐπαιρόμενοι προτρέπονταί τε ἀρετῆς ἐπιμελεῖσθαι καὶ ἄλκιμοι γίγνεσθαι.

[4] ταῦτα μὲν ἀληθῆ λέγεις πάντα, ὦ Σώκρατες· ἀλλʼ ὁρῷς, ὅτι, ἀφʼ οὗ ἥ τε σὺν Τολμίδῃ τῶν χιλίων ἐν Λεβαδείᾳ συμφορὰ ἐγένετο καὶ ἡ μεθʼ Ἱπποκράτους ἐπὶ Δηλίῳ, ἐκ τούτων τεταπείνωται μὲν ἡ τῶν Ἀθηναίων δόξα πρὸς τοὺς Βοιωτούς, ἐπῆρται δὲ τὸ τῶν Θηβαίων φρόνημα πρὸς τοὺς Ἀθηναίους· ὥστε Βοιωτοὶ μέν, οἱ πρόσθεν οὐδʼ ἐν τῇ ἑαυτῶν τολμῶντες Ἀθηναίοις ἄνευ Λακεδαιμονίων τε καὶ τῶν ἄλλων Πελοποννησίων ἀντιτάττεσθαι, νῦν ἀπειλοῦσιν αὐτοὶ καθʼ αὑτοὺς ἐμβαλεῖν εἰς τὴν Ἀττικήν, Ἀθηναῖοι δέ, οἱ πρότερον ὅτε Βοιωτοὶ μόνοι ἐγένοντο πορθοῦντες τὴν Βοιωτίαν, φοβοῦνται μὴ Βοιωτοὶ δῃώσωσι τὴν Ἀττικήν.

[5] καὶ ὁ Σωκράτης, ἀλλʼ αἰσθάνομαι μέν, ἔφη, ταῦτα οὕτως ἔχοντα· δοκεῖ δέ μοι ἀνδρὶ ἀγαθῷ ἄρχοντι νῦν εὐαρεστοτέρως διακεῖσθαι ἡ πόλις. τὸ μὲν γὰρ θάρσος ἀμέλειάν τε καὶ ῥᾳθυμίαν καὶ ἀπείθειαν ἐμβάλλει, ὁ δὲ φόβος προσεκτικωτέρους τε καὶ εὐπειθεστέρους καὶ εὐτακτοτέρους ποιεῖ.

[6] τεκμήραιο δʼ ἂν τοῦτο καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν ἐν ταῖς ναυσίν· ὅταν μὲν γὰρ δήπου μηδὲν φοβῶνται, μεστοί εἰσιν ἀταξίας· ἔστʼ ἂν δὲ ἢ χειμῶνα ἢ πολεμίους δείσωσιν, οὐ μόνον τὰ κελευόμενα πάντα ποιοῦσιν, ἀλλὰ καὶ σιγῶσι καραδοκοῦντες τὰ προσταχθησόμενα, ὥσπερ χορευταί.

[7] ἀλλὰ μήν, ἔφη ὁ Περικλῆς, εἴ γε νῦν μάλιστα πείθοιντο, ὥρα ἂν εἴη λέγειν, πῶς ἂν αὐτοὺς προτρεψαίμεθα πάλιν ἀνερασθῆναι τῆς ἀρχαίας ἀρετῆς τε καὶ εὐκλείας καὶ εὐδαιμονίας.

[8] οὐκοῦν, ἔφη ὁ Σωκράτης, εἰ μὲν ἐβουλόμεθα χρημάτων αὐτοὺς ὧν οἱ ἄλλοι εἶχον ἀντιποιεῖσθαι, ἀποδεικνύντες αὐτοῖς ταῦτα πατρῷά τε ὄντα καὶ προσήκοντα μάλιστʼ ἂν οὕτως αὐτοὺς ἐξωρμῶμεν ἀντέχεσθαι τούτων· ἐπεὶ δὲ τοῦ μετʼ ἀρετῆς πρωτεύειν αὐτοὺς ἐπιμελεῖσθαι βουλόμεθα, τοῦτʼ αὖ δεικτέον ἐκ παλαιοῦ μάλιστα προσῆκον αὐτοῖς, καὶ ὡς τούτου ἐπιμελόμενοι πάντων ἂν εἶεν κράτιστοι.

[9] πῶς οὖν ἂν τοῦτο διδάσκοιμεν; οἶμαι μέν, εἰ τούς γε παλαιτάτους ὧν ἀκούομεν προγόνους αὐτῶν ἀναμιμνῄσκοιμεν αὐτοὺς ἀκηκοότας ἀρίστους γεγονέναι.

[10] ἆρα λέγεις τὴν τῶν θεῶν κρίσιν, ἣν οἱ περὶ Κέκροπα διʼ ἀρετὴν ἔκριναν; λέγω γάρ, καὶ τὴν Ἐρεχθέως γε τροφὴν καὶ γένεσιν, καὶ τὸν πόλεμον τὸν ἐπʼ ἐκείνου γενόμενον πρὸς τοὺς ἐκ τῆς ἐχομένης ἠπείρου πάσης, καὶ τὸν ἐφʼ Ἡρακλειδῶν πρὸς τοὺς ἐν Πελοποννήσῳ, καὶ πάντας τοὺς ἐπὶ Θησέως πολεμηθέντας, ἐν οἷς πᾶσιν ἐκεῖνοι δῆλοι γεγόνασι τῶν καθʼ ἑαυτοὺς ἀνθρώπων ἀριστεύσαντες·

[11] εἰ δὲ βούλει, ἃ ὕστερον οἱ ἐκείνων μὲν ἀπόγονοι, οὐ πολὺ δὲ πρὸ ἡμῶν γεγονότες ἔπραξαν, τὰ μὲν αὐτοὶ καθʼ αὑτοὺς ἀγωνιζόμενοι πρὸς τοὺς κυριεύοντας τῆς τε Ἀσίας πάσης καὶ τῆς Εὐρώπης μέχρι Μακεδονίας καὶ πλείστην τῶν προγεγονότων δύναμιν καὶ ἀφορμὴν κεκτημένους καὶ μέγιστα ἔργα κατειργασμένους, τὰ δὲ καὶ μετὰ Πελοποννησίων ἀριστεύοντες καὶ κατὰ γῆν καὶ κατὰ θάλατταν· οἳ δὴ καὶ λέγονται πολὺ διενεγκεῖν τῶν καθʼ αὑτοὺς ἀνθρώπων.

[12] λέγονται γάρ, ἔφη. τοιγαροῦν πολλῶν μὲν μεταναστάσεων ἐν τῇ Ἑλλάδι γεγονυιῶν διέμειναν ἐν τῇ ἑαυτῶν, πολλοὶ δὲ ὑπὲρ δικαίων ἀντιλέγοντες ἐπέτρεπον ἐκείνοις, πολλοὶ δὲ ὑπὸ κρειττόνων ὑβριζόμενοι κατέφευγον πρὸς ἐκείνους.

[13] καὶ ὁ Περικλῆς, καὶ θαυμάζω γʼ, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἡ πόλις ὅπως ποτʼ ἐπὶ τὸ χεῖρον ἔκλινεν. ἐγὼ μέν, ἔφη, οἶμαι, ὁ Σωκράτης, ὥσπερ καὶ ἀθληταί τινες διὰ τὸ πολὺ ὑπερενεγκεῖν καὶ κρατιστεῦσαι καταρρᾳθυμήσαντες ὑστερίζουσι τῶν ἀντιπάλων, οὕτω καὶ Ἀθηναίους πολὺ διενεγκόντας ἀμελῆσαι ἑαυτῶν καὶ διὰ τοῦτο χείρους γεγονέναι.

[14] νῦν οὖν, ἔφη, τί ἂν ποιοῦντες ἀναλάβοιεν τὴν ἀρχαίαν ἀρετήν; καὶ ὁ Σωκράτης· οὐδὲν ἀπόκρυφον δοκεῖ μοι εἶναι, ἀλλʼ εἰ μὲν ἐξευρόντες τὰ τῶν προγόνων ἐπιτηδεύματα μηδὲν χεῖρον ἐκείνων ἐπιτηδεύοιεν, οὐδὲν ἂν χείρους ἐκείνων γενέσθαι· εἰ δὲ μή, τούς γε νῦν πρωτεύοντας μιμούμενοι καὶ τούτοις τὰ αὐτὰ ἐπιτηδεύοντες, ὁμοίως μὲν τοῖς αὐτοῖς χρώμενοι οὐδὲν ἂν χείρους ἐκείνων εἶεν, εἰ δʼ ἐπιμελέστερον, καὶ βελτίους.

[15] λέγεις, ἔφη, πόρρω που εἶναι τῇ πόλει τὴν καλοκαγαθίαν. πότε γὰρ οὕτως Ἀθηναῖοι ὥσπερ Λακεδαιμόνιοι ἢ πρεσβυτέρους αἰδέσονται, οἳ ἀπὸ τῶν πατέρων ἄρχονται καταφρονεῖν τῶν γεραιτέρων, ἢ σωμασκήσουσιν οὕτως, οἳ οὐ μόνον αὐτοὶ εὐεξίας ἀμελοῦσιν, ἀλλὰ καὶ τῶν ἐπιμελομένων καταγελῶσι;

[16] πότε δὲ οὕτω πείσονται τοῖς ἄρχουσιν, οἳ καὶ ἀγάλλονται ἐπὶ τῷ καταφρονεῖν τῶν ἀρχόντων; ἢ πότε οὕτως ὁμονοήσουσιν, οἵ γε ἀντὶ μὲν τοῦ συνεργεῖν ἑαυτοῖς τὰ συμφέροντα ἐπηρεάζουσιν ἀλλήλοις καὶ φθονοῦσιν ἑαυτοῖς μᾶλλον ἢ τοῖς ἄλλοις ἀνθρώποις, μάλιστα δὲ πάντων ἔν τε ταῖς ἰδίαις συνόδοις καὶ ταῖς κοιναῖς διαφέρονται καὶ πλείστας δίκας ἀλλήλοις δικάζονται καὶ προαιροῦνται μᾶλλον οὕτω κερδαίνειν ἀπʼ ἀλλήλων ἢ συνωφελοῦντες αὑτούς, τοῖς δὲ κοινοῖς ὥσπερ ἀλλοτρίοις χρώμενοι περὶ τούτων αὖ μάχονται καὶ ταῖς εἰς τὰ τοιαῦτα δυνάμεσι μάλιστα χαίρουσιν;

[17] ἐξ ὧν πολλὴ μὲν ἀτηρία καὶ κακία τῇ πόλει ἐμφύεται, πολλὴ δὲ ἔχθρα καὶ μῖσος ἀλλήλων τοῖς πολίταις ἐγγίγνεται, διʼ ἃ ἔγωγε μάλα φοβοῦμαι ἀεί, μή τι μεῖζον ἢ ὥστε φέρειν δύνασθαι κακὸν τῇ πόλει συμβῇ.

[18] μηδαμῶς, ἔφη ὁ Σωκράτης, ὦ Περίκλεις, οὕτως ἡγοῦ ἀνηκέστῳ πονηρίᾳ νοσεῖν Ἀθηναίους. οὐχ ὁρᾷς, ὡς εὔτακτοι μέν εἰσιν ἐν τοῖς ναυτικοῖς, εὐτάκτως δʼ ἐν τοῖς γυμνικοῖς ἀγῶσι πείθονται τοῖς ἐπιστάταις, οὐδένων δὲ καταδεέστερον ἐν τοῖς χοροῖς ὑπηρετοῦσι τοῖς διδασκάλοις;

[19] τοῦτο γάρ τοι, ἔφη, καὶ θαυμαστόν ἐστι, τὸ τοὺς μὲν τοιούτους πειθαρχεῖν τοῖς ἐφεστῶσι, τοὺς δὲ ὁπλίτας καὶ τοὺς ἱππέας, οἳ δοκοῦσι καλοκαγαθίᾳ προκεκρίσθαι τῶν πολιτῶν, ἀπειθεστάτους εἶναι πάντων.

[20] καὶ ὁ Σωκράτης ἔφη· ἡ δὲ ἐν Ἀρείῳ πάγῳ βουλή, ὦ Περίκλεις, οὐκ ἐκ τῶν δεδοκιμασμένων καθίσταται; καὶ μάλα, ἔφη. οἶσθα οὖν τινας, ἔφη, κάλλιον ἢ νομιμώτερον ἢ σεμνότερον ἢ δικαιότερον τάς τε δίκας δικάζοντας καὶ τἆλλα πάντα πράττοντας; οὐ μέμφομαι, ἔφη, τούτοις. οὐ τοίνυν, ἔφη, δεῖ ἀθυμεῖν ὡς οὐκ εὐτάκτων ὄντων Ἀθηναίων.

[21] καὶ μὴν ἔν γε τοῖς στρατιωτικοῖς, ἔφη, ἔνθα μάλιστα δεῖ σωφρονεῖν τε καὶ εὐτακτεῖν καὶ πειθαρχεῖν, οὐδενὶ τούτων προσέχουσιν. ἴσως γάρ, ἔφη ὁ Σωκράτης, ἐν τούτοις οἱ ἥκιστα ἐπιστάμενοι ἄρχουσιν αὐτῶν. οὐχ ὁρᾷς ὅτι κιθαριστῶν μὲν καὶ χορευτῶν καὶ ὀρχηστῶν οὐδὲ εἷς ἐπιχειρεῖ ἄρχειν μὴ ἐπιστάμενος, οὐδὲ παλαιστῶν οὐδὲ παγκρατιαστῶν; ἀλλὰ πάντες οἱ τούτων ἄρχοντες ἔχουσι δεῖξαι ὁπόθεν ἔμαθον ταῦτα ἐφʼ οἷς ἐφεστᾶσι· τῶν δὲ στρατηγῶν οἱ πλεῖστοι αὐτοσχεδιάζουσιν.

[22] οὐ μέντοι σέ γε τοιοῦτον ἐγὼ νομίζω εἶναι, ἀλλʼ οἶμαί σε οὐδὲν ἧττον ἔχειν εἰπεῖν ὁπότε στρατηγεῖν ἢ ὁπότε παλαίειν ἤρξω μανθάνειν. καὶ πολλὰ μὲν οἶμαί σε τῶν πατρῴων στρατηγημάτων παρειληφότα διασῴζειν, πολλὰ δὲ πανταχόθεν συνηχέναι, ὁπόθεν οἷόν τε ἦν μαθεῖν τι ὠφέλιμον εἰς στρατηγίαν.

[23] οἶμαι δέ σε πολλὰ μεριμνᾶν, ὅπως μὴ λάθῃς σεαυτὸν ἀγνοῶν τι τῶν εἰς στρατηγίαν ὠφελίμων, καὶ ἐάν τι τοιοῦτον αἴσθῃ σεαυτὸν μὴ εἰδότα, ζητεῖν τοὺς ἐπισταμένους ταῦτα, οὔτε δώρων οὔτε χαρίτων φειδόμενον, ὅπως μάθῃς παρʼ αὐτῶν ἃ μὴ ἐπίστασαι καὶ συνεργοὺς ἀγαθοὺς ἔχῃς.

[24] καὶ ὁ Περικλῆς, οὐ λανθάνεις με, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἔφη, ὅτι οὐδʼ οἰόμενός με τούτων ἐπιμελεῖσθαι ταῦτα λέγεις, ἀλλʼ ἐγχειρῶν με διδάσκειν ὅτι τὸν μέλλοντα στρατηγεῖν τούτων ἁπάντων ἐπιμελεῖσθαι δεῖ.

[25] ὁμολογῶ μέντοι κἀγώ σοι ταῦτα. τοῦτο δʼ, ἔφη, ὦ Περίκλεις, κατανενόηκας, ὅτι πρόκειται τῆς χώρας ἡμῶν ὄρη μεγάλα, καθήκοντα ἐπὶ τὴν Βοιωτίαν, διʼ ὧν εἰς τὴν χώραν εἴσοδοι στεναί τε καὶ προσάντεις εἰσί, καὶ ὅτι μέση διέζωται ὄρεσιν ἐρυμνοῖς; καὶ μάλα, ἔφη.

[26] τί δέ; ἐκεῖνο ἀκήκοας, ὅτι Μυσοὶ καὶ Πισίδαι ἐν τῇ βασιλέως χώρᾳ κατέχοντες ἐρυμνὰ πάνυ χωρία καὶ κούφως ὡπλισμένοι δύνανται πολλὰ μὲν τὴν βασιλέως χώραν καταθέοντες κακοποιεῖν, αὐτοὶ δὲ ζῆν ἐλεύθεροι; καὶ τοῦτό γʼ, ἔφη, ἀκούω.

[27] Ἀθηναίους δʼ οὐκ ἂν οἴει, ἔφη, μέχρι τῆς ἐλαφρᾶς ἡλικίας ὡπλισμένους κουφοτέροις ὅπλοις καὶ τὰ προκείμενα τῆς χώρας ὄρη κατέχοντας βλαβεροὺς μὲν τοῖς πολεμίοις εἶναι, μεγάλην δὲ προβολὴν τοῖς πολίταις τῆς χώρας κατεσκευάσθαι; καὶ ὁ Περικλῆς, πάντʼ οἶμαι, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες, καὶ ταῦτα χρήσιμα εἶναι.

[28] εἰ τοίνυν, ἔφη ὁ Σωκράτης, ἀρέσκει σοι ταῦτα, ἐπιχείρει αὐτοῖς, ὦ ἄριστε· ὅ τι μὲν γὰρ ἂν τούτων καταπράξῃς, καὶ σοὶ καλὸν ἔσται καὶ τῇ πόλει ἀγαθόν, ἐὰν δέ τι αὐτῶν ἀδυνατῇς, οὔτε τὴν πόλιν βλάψεις οὔτε σαυτὸν καταισχυνεῖς.

Memorabilia. Xenophon. ed. Edgar Carew Marchant. Oxford. 1921.

Sponsored by Perseus Project, Tufts University.

Funding provided by The Annenberg CPB/Project.

Current edition Perseus

Ἀπομνημονεύματα (Greek) (Xenophon. Opera omnia, Vol. 2. Marchant, Edgar Cardew, editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1921.)

Translations (1)

Memorabilia Perseus (Xenophon in Seven Volumes, Vol. 4. Marchant, Edgar Cardew, editor, translator. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press; London: William Heinemann Ltd., 1923.) — 3.5 focus

[1]
Once when talking with the son of the great Pericles, he said: For my part, Pericles, I feel hopeful that, now you have become general, our city will be more efficient and more famous in the art of war, and will defeat our enemies.
I could wish, answered Pericles, that it might be as you say, Socrates; but how these changes are to come about I cannot see.
Should you like to discuss them with me, then, said Socrates, and consider how they can be brought about?
I should.

[2]
Do you know then, that in point of numbers the Athenians are not inferior to the Boeotians?
Yes, I know.
Do you think that the larger number of fine, well-developed men could be selected from among the Boeotians or the Athenians?
In that matter too they seem to be at no disadvantage.
Which do you think are the more united?
The Athenians, I should say, for many of the Boeotians resent the selfish behaviour of the Thebans. At Athens I see nothing of that sort.

[3]
And again, the Athenians are more ambitious and more high-minded than other peoples; and these qualities are among the strongest incentives to heroism and patriotic self-sacrifice.
Yes, in these respects too the Athenians need not fear criticism.
And besides, none have inherited a past more crowded with great deeds; and many are heartened by such a heritage and encouraged to care for virtue and prove their gallantry.
All you have said is true, Socrates.

[4] But, you see, since the disasters sustained by Tolmides and the Thousand at Lebadea ¹ and by Hippocrates at Delium ,² the relations of the Athenians and Boeotians are changed: the glory of the Athenians is brought low, the pride of the Thebans is exalted; and now the Boeotians, who formerly would not venture, even in their own country, to face the Athenians without help from Sparta and the rest of the Peloponnese , threaten to invade Attica by themselves, and the Athenians, who formerly overran Boeotia , fear that the Boeotians may plunder Attica .

[5]
Ah, I am aware of that, answered Socrates; but the disposition of our city is now more to a good ruler’s liking. For confidence breeds carelessness, slackness, disobedience: fear makes men more attentive, more obedient, more amenable to discipline. The behaviour of sailors is a case in point.

[6] So long as they have nothing to fear, they are, I believe, an unruly lot, but when they expect a storm or an attack, they not only carry out all orders, but watch in silence for the word of command like choristers.

[7]
Well, exclaimed Pericles, if they are now in the mood for obedience, it seems time to say how we can revive in them a longing for the old virtue and fame and happiness.

[8]
If then, said Socrates, we wanted them to claim money that others held, the best way of egging them on to seize it would be to show them that it was their fathers’ money and belongs to them. As we want them to strive for pre-eminence in virtue, we must show that this belonged to them in old days, and that by striving for it they will surpass all other men.

[9]
How then can we teach this?
I think by reminding them that their earliest ancestors of whom we have any account were, as they themselves have been told, the most valiant.

[10]
Do you refer to the judgment of the gods,³ which Cecrops delivered in his court because of his virtue?
Yes, and the care and birth of Erectheus,⁴ and the war waged in his day with all the adjacent country, and the war between the sons of Heracles⁵ and the Peloponnesians, and all the wars waged in the days of Theseus,⁶ in all of which it is manifest that they were champions among the men of their time.

[11] You may add the victories of their descendants,⁷ who lived not long before our own day: some they gained unaided in their struggle with the lords of all Asia and of Europe as far as Macedonia , the owners of more power and wealth than the world had ever seen, who had wrought deeds that none had equalled; in others they were fellow-champions with the Peloponnesians both on land and sea. These men, like their fathers, are reported to have been far superior to all other men of their time.
Yes, that is the report of them.

[12]
Therefore, though there have been many migrations in Greece , these continued to dwell in their own land: many referred to them their rival claims, many found a refuge with them from the brutality of the oppressor.

[13]
Yes, Socrates, cried Pericles, and I wonder how our city can have become so degenerate.
My own view, replied Socrates, is that the Athenians, as a consequence of their great superiority, grew careless of themselves, and have thus become degenerate, much as athletes who are in a class by themselves and win the championship easily are apt to grow slack and drop below their rivals.

[14]
How, then, can they now recover their old virtue?
There is no mystery about it, as I think. If they find out the customs of their ancestors and practise them as well as they did, they will come to be as good as they were; or failing that, they need but to imitate those who now have the pre-eminence and to practise their customs, and if they are equally careful in observing them, they will be as good as they, and, if more careful, even better.

[15]
That means that it is a long march for our city to perfection. For when will Athenians show the Lacedaemonian reverence for age, seeing that they despise all their elders, beginning with their own fathers? When will they adopt the Lacedaemonian system of training, seeing that they not only neglect to make themselves fit, but mock at those who take the trouble to do so?

[16] When will they reach that standard of obedience to their rulers, seeing that they make contempt of rulers a point of honour? Or when will they attain that harmony, seeing that, instead of working together for the general good,⁸ they are more envious and bitter against one another than against the rest of the world, are the most quarrelsome of men in public and private assemblies, most often go to law with one another, and would rather make profit of one another so than by mutual service, and while regarding public affairs as alien to themselves, yet fight over them too, and find their chief enjoyment in having the means to carry on such strife?

[17] So it comes about that mischief and evil grow apace in the city, enmity and mutual hatred spring up among the people, so that I am always dreading that some evil past bearing may befall the city.

[18]
No, no, Pericles, don’t think the wickedness of the Athenians so utterly past remedy. Don’t you see what good discipline they maintain in their fleets, how well they obey the umpires in athletic contests, how they take orders from the choir-trainers as readily as any?

[19]
Ah yes, and strange indeed it is that such men submit themselves to their masters, and yet the infantry and cavalry, who are supposed to be the pick of the citizens for good character, are the most insubordinate.

[20]
Then Socrates asked, But what of the Court of the Areopagus, Pericles? Are not its members persons who have won approval?
Certainly.
Then do you know of any who decide the cases that come before them and perform all their other functions more honourably, more in accordance with law, with more dignity and justice?
I am not finding fault with the Areopagus.
Then you must not despair of Athenian discipline.

[21]
But, you see, in the army, where good conduct, discipline, submission are most necessary, our people pay no attention to these things.
This may be due to the incompetence of the officers. You must have noticed that no one attempts to exercise authority over our harpists, choristers and dancers, if he is incompetent, nor over wrestlers or wrestlers who also box? All who have authority over them can tell where they learned their business; but most of our generals are improvisors.

[22] However, I don’t suppose you are one of this sort. I suppose you can say when you began to learn strategy as well as when you began wrestling. Many of the principles, I think, you have inherited from your father, and many others you have gathered from every source from which you could learn anything useful to a general.

[23] I think, too, that you take much trouble that you may not unconsciously lack any knowledge useful to a general; and if you find that you don’t know anything, you seek out those who have the knowledge, grudging neither gifts nor thanks, that you may learn what you don’t know from them and may have the help of good coaching.

[24]
I can see, Socrates, that in saying this you don’t really think I study these things, but you are trying to show me that one who is going to command an army must study all of them; and of course I admit that you are right.

[25]
Have you observed, Pericles, that our frontier is protected by great mountains extending to Boeotia , through which there are steep and narrow passes leading into our land, and that the interior is cut across by rugged mountains?
Certainly.

[26]
Further, have you heard that the Mysians and Pisidians, occupying very rugged country in the Great King’s territory and lightly armed, contrive to overrun and damage the King’s territory and to preserve their own freedom?⁹
Yes, I have heard so.

[27]
And don’t you think that active young Athenians, more lightly armed and occupying the mountains that protect our country, would prove a thorn in the side of the enemy and a strong bulwark of defence to our people?
Socrates, replied Pericles, I think all these suggestions too have a practical value.

[28]
Then, since you like them, adopt them, my good fellow. Any part of them that you carry out will bring honour to you and good to the state; and should you fail in part, you will neither harm the state nor disgrace yourself.

Xenophon Memorabilia 3.5

ed. Edgar Carew Marchant

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