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Βλέπυρος

πῶς οὖν οὕτω ζώντων ἡμῶν τοὺς αὑτοῦ παῖδας ἕκαστος
635

ἔσται δυνατὸς διαγιγνώσκειν;

Πραξάγορα

τί δὲ δεῖ; πατέρας γὰρ ἅπαντας

τοὺς πρεσβυτέρους αὑτῶν εἶναι τοῖσι χρόνοισιν νομιοῦσιν.

Βλέπυρος

οὐκοῦν ἄγξουσʼ εὖ καὶ χρηστῶς ἑξῆς τὸν πάντα γέροντα

διὰ τὴν ἄγνοιαν, ἐπεὶ καὶ νῦν γιγνώσκοντες πατέρʼ ὄντα

ἄγχουσι. τί δῆθʼ ὅταν ἀγνὼς ᾖ; πῶς οὐ τότε κἀπιχεσοῦνται;
640

Πραξάγορα

ἀλλʼ ὁ παρεστὼς οὐκ ἐπιτρέψει· τότε δʼ αὐτοῖς οὐκ ἔμελʼ οὐδὲν

τῶν ἀλλοτρίων ὅστις τύπτοι· νῦν δʼ ἢν πληγέντος ἀκούσῃ,

μὴ αὐτὸν ἐκεῖνον τύπτῃ δεδιὼς τοῖς δρῶσιν τοῦτο μαχεῖται.

Βλέπυρος

τὰ μὲν ἄλλα λέγεις οὐδὲν σκαιῶς· εἰ δὲ προσελθὼν Ἐπίκουρος

ἢ Λευκολόφας πάππαν με καλεῖ, τοῦτʼ ἤδη δεινὸν ἀκοῦσαι.
645

Πραξάγορα

πολὺ μέντοι δεινότερον τούτου τοῦ πράγματός ἐστι,

Βλέπυρος

τὸ ποῖον;

Πραξάγορα

εἴ σε φιλήσειεν Ἀρίστυλλος φάσκων αὑτοῦ πατέρʼ εἶναι.

Βλέπυρος

οἰμώζοι γʼ ἂν καὶ κωκύοι.

Πραξάγορα

σὺ δέ γʼ ὄζοις ἂν καλαμίνθης,

ἀλλʼ οὗτος μὲν πρότερον γέγονεν πρὶν τὸ ψήφισμα γενέσθαι,

ὥστʼ οὐχὶ δέος μή σε φιλήσῃ.
650

Βλέπυρος

δεινὸν μέντἂν ἐπεπόνθη.

τὴν γῆν δὲ τίς ἔσθʼ ὁ γεωργήσων;

Πραξάγορα

οἱ δοῦλοι. σοὶ δὲ μελήσει,

ὅταν ᾖ δεκάπουν τὸ στοιχεῖον, λιπαρὸν χωρεῖν ἐπὶ δεῖπνον.

Βλέπυρος

περὶ δʼ ἱματίων τίς πόρος ἔσται; καὶ γὰρ τοῦτʼ ἔστιν ἐρέσθαι.

Πραξάγορα

τὰ μὲν ὄνθʼ ὑμῖν πρῶτον ὑπάρξει, τὰ δὲ λοίφʼ ἡμεῖς ὑφανοῦμεν.

Βλέπυρος

ἓν ἔτι ζητῶ· πῶς ἤν τις ὄφλῃ παρὰ τοῖς ἄρχουσι δίκην τῳ,
655

πόθεν ἐκτείσει ταύτην; οὐ γὰρ τῶν κοινῶν γʼ ἐστὶ δίκαιον.

Πραξάγορα

ἀλλʼ οὐδὲ δίκαι πρῶτον ἔσονται.

Βλέπυρος

τουτὶ τοὔπος σʼ ἐπιτρίψει.

Πραξάγορα

κἀγὼ ταύτην γνώμην ἐθέμην· τοῦ γὰρ τάλαν οὕνεκʼ ἔσονται;

Βλέπυρος

πολλῶν οὕνεκα νὴ τὸν Ἀπόλλω· πρῶτον δʼ ἑνὸς οὕνεκα δήπου,

ἤν τις ὀφείλων ἐξαρνῆται.
660

Πραξάγορα

πόθεν οὖν ἐδάνεισʼ ὁ δανείσας

ἐν τῷ κοινῷ πάντων ὄντων; κλέπτων δήπουʼ στʼ ἐπίδηλος.

Βλέπυρος

νὴ τὴν Δήμητρʼ εὖ γε διδάσκεις. τουτὶ τοίνυν φρασάτω μοι,

τῆς αἰκείας οἱ τύπτοντες πόθεν ἐκτείσουσιν, ἐπειδὰν

εὐωχηθέντες ὑβρίζωσιν; τοῦτο γὰρ οἶμαί σʼ ἀπορήσειν.

Πραξάγορα

ἀπὸ τῆς μάζης ἧς σιτεῖται· ταύτης γὰρ ὅταν τις ἀφαιρῇ,
665

οὐχ ὑβριεῖται φαύλως οὕτως αὖθις τῇ γαστρὶ κολασθείς.

Ecclesiazusae. Aristophanes. ed. F. W. Hall, ed. William M. Geldart. Oxford. 1907.

Sponsored by Perseus Project, Tufts University.

Funding provided by The Annenberg CPB/Project.

Current edition Perseus

Ἐκκλησιάζουσαι (Greek) (Aristophanes. Aristophanis Comoediae, Vol. 2. Hall, F. W. and Geldart, William M., editors. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1907.)

Translations (2)

Ecclesiazusae (OCR draft) Experimental (English (Anonymous; 1938 compilation). Migrated from Perseus legacy XML; source wording and notes retained. See TEI header and migration inventory.) — 635 focus

Blepyrus

635 But if we live in this fashion, how will each one know his children?

Praxagora

The youngest will look upon the oldest as their fathers.

Blepyrus

Ah! how heartily they will strangle all the old men, since even now, when each one knows his father, they make no bones about 640 strangling him! then, my word! won't they just scorn and crap upon the old folks!

Praxagora

But those around will prevent it. Hitherto, when anyone saw an old man beaten, he would not meddle, because it did not concern him; but now each will fear the sufferer may be his own father and such violence will be stopped.

Blepyrus

What you say is not so silly after all; but it would be highly unpleasant were Epicurus 645 and Leucolophas to come up and call me father.

Chremes

But it would be far worse, were ...

Blepyrus

Were what?

Chremes

... Aristyllus to embrace you and style you his father.

Blepyrus

He'll regret it if he does!

Chremes

For you would smell vilely of mint if he kissed you. But he was born before the decree was carried, so that you have not 650 to fear his kiss.

Blepyrus

It would be awful. But who will till the soil?

Praxagora

The slaves. Your only cares will be to scent yourself, and to go and dine, when the shadow of the gnomon is ten feet long on the dial.

Blepyrus

But how shall we obtain clothing? Tell me that!

Praxagora

You will first wear out those you have, and then we women will weave you others.

Blepyrus

655 Now another point: if the magistrates condemn a citizen to the payment of a fine, how is he going to do it? Out of the public funds? That would not be right surely.

Praxagora

But there will be no more lawsuits.

Blepyrus

This rule will ruin you.

Praxagora

I think so too. Besides, my dear, why should there be lawsuits?

Blepyrus

Oh! for a thousand reasons, by Apollo! Firstly, 660 because a debtor denies his obligation.

Praxagora

But where will the lender get the money to lend, if all is in common? unless he steals it out of the treasury? and he could not hide that!

Blepyrus

Well thought out, by Demeter! But tell me this: here are some men who are returning from a feast and are drunk and they strike some passer-by; how are they going to pay the fine? Ah! you are puzzled now!

Praxagora

665 They will have to take it out of their pittance; and being thus punished through their belly, they will not care to begin again.

English (Sanjaya, generated; selected passages) (OCR draft) Experimental (Source: pnadelofficial/aristophanes-sanjaya, commit c319590c139e5603e71f0699caa0663d823af8ad. Machine-generated source annotations retained; see Sanjaya import audit for coverage and limitations.) — 635 focus

Blepyrus: How then, while we are still alive, does each man [treat] his own children?

635

Blepyrus: Will he be able to discern?

Praxagora: But what is necessary? For [we must kill] all the fathers.

Praxagora: they will consider their elders to be older in years.

Blepyrus: Then, having strangled her well and properly one after another, the whole old man.

Blepyrus: because of ignorance, since even now, recognizing that he is a father,

BLEPYRUS: They hang themselves. Why then, when they are unmarried, will they not also itch and scratch themselves?

640

Praxagora: But the one standing by will not permit it; then, however, they were not at all concerned.

Praxagora: Let anyone strike a stranger; but now, if he hears a blow struck,

Praxagora: Do not strike that man, fearing he will fight those who do this.

Blepyrus: You say the rest quite well; but if Epichorus were to come up...

Blepyrus: Either Lysidamus is calling me "grandpa," which is already dreadful to hear.

645

Praxagora: However, this matter is far more serious than this,

Blepyrus: Which one?

Praxagora: If Aristyllus should kiss you, saying that he is her father.

Blepyrus: 'Oh, he would groan and wail!'

Praxagora: But you would smell of calamint,

Praxagora: but this one came to be before the decree came to be,

Praxagora: So it is not that you are afraid he might kiss you.

650

Blepyrus: Terrible things I have suffered.

Blepyrus: But who will be the one to farm the land?

Praxagora: The slaves. But you will take care of them,

Praxagora: When the letter is ten-footed, it is good to go to dinner.

Blepyrus: And as for clothes, how will there be a way out? For this too is something to ask.

Praxagora: These things will first be yours, but the rest we will weave.

Blepyrus: I am still asking one thing: how anyone could have been fined by the magistrates.

655

Blepyrus: From where will he pay this? For it is not right from the common funds.

Praxagora: But there will not even be courts at first.

Blepyrus: This word will grind you down.

Praxagora: I too set this opinion; for on account of the talent, will they be there?

Blepyrus: For many reasons, by Apollo; but first for one reason, surely,

Blepyrus: If anyone who owes [money] denies [it].

660

Praxagora: So where did the lender lend from?

Praxagora: With all things in common? Then surely a thief is obvious.

Blepyrus: By Demeter, you are teaching well. Now let this be clear to me,

Blepyrus: from where will those who strike pay for the beating, when...

Blepyrus: 'After feasting, do they insult? For this, I think, you will be at a loss.'

Praxagora: from the barley-cake which she eats; for when someone takes away this,

665

Praxagora: Has the belly not been punished badly again in this way?

Commentary

Commentary (Sanjaya, generated; selected passages) (OCR draft) (Source: pnadelofficial/aristophanes-sanjaya, commit c319590c139e5603e71f0699caa0663d823af8ad. Machine-generated source annotations retained; see Sanjaya import audit for coverage and limitations.) focus

638. mvp-tlg0019-tlg010-sanjaya-com-eng1-18

Line 638

οὐκοῦν ἄγξουσʼ εὖ καὶ χρηστῶς ἑξῆς τὸν πάντα γέροντα

The adverb χρηστῶς here modifies the manner of the hanging, functioning ironically to mean 'effectively' or 'well' in the sense of achieving the desired result (death), rather than the standard moral sense of 'honestly' or 'kindly.' This semantic shift is characteristic of Aristophanic irony, where a positive adverb is applied to a violent act to heighten the grotesque humor of the Chorus's proposal.

640. mvp-tlg0019-tlg010-sanjaya-com-eng1-19

Line 640

ἄγχουσι. τί δῆθʼ ὅταν ἀγνὼς ᾖ; πῶς οὐ τότε κἀπιχεσοῦνται;

The verb ἄγχουσι is the present indicative active of ἄγχω, meaning 'to strangle' or 'to choke'. In this context, it is used metaphorically to describe the distress or anxiety felt by the characters. The rhetorical question that follows, τί δῆθʼ ὅταν ἀγνὼς ᾖ; πῶς οὐ τότε κἀπιχεσοῦνται;, plays on the double meaning of ἀγνὸς, which can mean 'ignorant' or 'unaware', but also 'chaste' or 'pure'. The speaker is questioning how the characters could possibly not be 'strangled' (metaphorically distressed) when they are in a state of ignorance or unawareness, especially given the context of the play's themes of political and social confusion.

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Βλέπυρος πῶς οὖν οὕτω ζώντων ἡμῶν τοὺς αὑτοῦ παῖδας ἕκαστος 635 ἔσται δυνατὸς διαγιγνώσκειν;

Πραξάγορα τί δὲ δεῖ; πατέρας γὰρ ἅπαντας τοὺς πρεσβυτέρους αὑτῶν εἶναι τοῖσι χρόνοισιν νομιοῦσιν.

Βλέπυρος τὰ μὲν ἄλλα λέγεις οὐδὲν σκαιῶς· εἰ δὲ προσελθὼν Ἐπίκουρος ἢ Λευκολόφας πάππαν με καλεῖ, τοῦτʼ ἤδη δεινὸν ἀκοῦσαι. 645

Πραξάγορα πολὺ μέντοι δεινότερον τούτου τοῦ πράγματός ἐστι,

Βλέπυρος τὸ ποῖον;

Πραξάγορα εἴ σε φιλήσειεν Ἀρίστυλλος φάσκων αὑτοῦ πατέρʼ εἶναι.

Βλέπυρος οἰμώζοι γʼ ἂν καὶ κωκύοι.

Πραξάγορα σὺ δέ γʼ ὄζοις ἂν καλαμίνθης, ἀλλʼ οὗτος μὲν πρότερον γέγονεν πρὶν τὸ ψήφισμα γενέσθαι, ὥστʼ οὐχὶ δέος μή σε φιλήσῃ. 650

Βλέπυρος δεινὸν μέντἂν ἐπεπόνθη. τὴν γῆν δὲ τίς ἔσθʼ ὁ γεωργήσων;

Πραξάγορα οἱ δοῦλοι. σοὶ δὲ μελήσει, ὅταν ᾖ δεκάπουν τὸ στοιχεῖον, λιπαρὸν χωρεῖν ἐπὶ δεῖπνον.

Βλέπυρος περὶ δʼ ἱματίων τίς πόρος ἔσται; καὶ γὰρ τοῦτʼ ἔστιν ἐρέσθαι.

Πραξάγορα τὰ μὲν ὄνθʼ ὑμῖν πρῶτον ὑπάρξει, τὰ δὲ λοίφʼ ἡμεῖς ὑφανοῦμεν.

Βλέπυρος ἓν ἔτι ζητῶ· πῶς ἤν τις ὄφλῃ παρὰ τοῖς ἄρχουσι δίκην τῳ, 655 πόθεν ἐκτείσει ταύτην; οὐ γὰρ τῶν κοινῶν γʼ ἐστὶ δίκαιον.

Πραξάγορα ἀλλʼ οὐδὲ δίκαι πρῶτον ἔσονται.

Βλέπυρος τουτὶ τοὔπος σʼ ἐπιτρίψει.

Πραξάγορα κἀγὼ ταύτην γνώμην ἐθέμην· τοῦ γὰρ τάλαν οὕνεκʼ ἔσονται;

Βλέπυρος πολλῶν οὕνεκα νὴ τὸν Ἀπόλλω· πρῶτον δʼ ἑνὸς οὕνεκα δήπου, ἤν τις ὀφείλων ἐξαρνῆται. 660

Πραξάγορα πόθεν οὖν ἐδάνεισʼ ὁ δανείσας ἐν τῷ κοινῷ πάντων ὄντων; κλέπτων δήπουʼ στʼ ἐπίδηλος.

Πραξάγορα ἀπὸ τῆς μάζης ἧς σιτεῖται· ταύτης γὰρ ὅταν τις ἀφαιρῇ, 665 οὐχ ὑβριεῖται φαύλως οὕτως αὖθις τῇ γαστρὶ κολασθείς.

Current edition Perseus

Blepyrus 635 But if we live in this fashion, how will each one know his children?

Praxagora The youngest will look upon the oldest as their fathers.

Blepyrus Ah! how heartily they will strangle all the old men, since even now, when each one knows his father, they make no bones about 640 strangling him! then, my word! won't they just scorn and crap upon the old folks!

Praxagora But those around will prevent it. Hitherto, when anyone saw an old man beaten, he would not meddle, because it did not concern him; but now each will fear the sufferer may be his own father and such violence will be stopped.

Blepyrus What you say is not so silly after all; but it would be highly unpleasant were Epicurus 645 and Leucolophas to come up and call me father.

Chremes But it would be far worse, were ...

Blepyrus Were what?

Chremes ... Aristyllus to embrace you and style you his father.

Blepyrus He'll regret it if he does!

Chremes For you would smell vilely of mint if he kissed you. But he was born before the decree was carried, so that you have not 650 to fear his kiss.

Blepyrus It would be awful. But who will till the soil?

Praxagora The slaves. Your only cares will be to scent yourself, and to go and dine, when the shadow of the gnomon is ten feet long on the dial.

Blepyrus But how shall we obtain clothing? Tell me that!

Praxagora You will first wear out those you have, and then we women will weave you others.

Blepyrus 655 Now another point: if the magistrates condemn a citizen to the payment of a fine, how is he going to do it? Out of the public funds? That would not be right surely.

Praxagora But there will be no more lawsuits.

Blepyrus This rule will ruin you.

Praxagora I think so too. Besides, my dear, why should there be lawsuits?

Blepyrus Oh! for a thousand reasons, by Apollo! Firstly, 660 because a debtor denies his obligation.

Praxagora But where will the lender get the money to lend, if all is in common? unless he steals it out of the treasury? and he could not hide that!

Blepyrus Well thought out, by Demeter! But tell me this: here are some men who are returning from a feast and are drunk and they strike some passer-by; how are they going to pay the fine? Ah! you are puzzled now!

Praxagora 665 They will have to take it out of their pittance; and being thus punished through their belly, they will not care to begin again.

Commentary

Line 638

Line 640

Stable identifiers

Βλέπυρος

πῶς οὖν οὕτω ζώντων ἡμῶν τοὺς αὑτοῦ παῖδας ἕκαστος
635

ἔσται δυνατὸς διαγιγνώσκειν;

Πραξάγορα

τί δὲ δεῖ; πατέρας γὰρ ἅπαντας

τοὺς πρεσβυτέρους αὑτῶν εἶναι τοῖσι χρόνοισιν νομιοῦσιν.

Βλέπυρος

τὰ μὲν ἄλλα λέγεις οὐδὲν σκαιῶς· εἰ δὲ προσελθὼν Ἐπίκουρος

ἢ Λευκολόφας πάππαν με καλεῖ, τοῦτʼ ἤδη δεινὸν ἀκοῦσαι.
645

Πραξάγορα

πολὺ μέντοι δεινότερον τούτου τοῦ πράγματός ἐστι,

Βλέπυρος

τὸ ποῖον;

Πραξάγορα

εἴ σε φιλήσειεν Ἀρίστυλλος φάσκων αὑτοῦ πατέρʼ εἶναι.

Βλέπυρος

οἰμώζοι γʼ ἂν καὶ κωκύοι.

Πραξάγορα

σὺ δέ γʼ ὄζοις ἂν καλαμίνθης,

ἀλλʼ οὗτος μὲν πρότερον γέγονεν πρὶν τὸ ψήφισμα γενέσθαι,

ὥστʼ οὐχὶ δέος μή σε φιλήσῃ.
650

Βλέπυρος

δεινὸν μέντἂν ἐπεπόνθη.

τὴν γῆν δὲ τίς ἔσθʼ ὁ γεωργήσων;

Πραξάγορα

οἱ δοῦλοι. σοὶ δὲ μελήσει,

ὅταν ᾖ δεκάπουν τὸ στοιχεῖον, λιπαρὸν χωρεῖν ἐπὶ δεῖπνον.

Βλέπυρος

περὶ δʼ ἱματίων τίς πόρος ἔσται; καὶ γὰρ τοῦτʼ ἔστιν ἐρέσθαι.

Πραξάγορα

τὰ μὲν ὄνθʼ ὑμῖν πρῶτον ὑπάρξει, τὰ δὲ λοίφʼ ἡμεῖς ὑφανοῦμεν.

Βλέπυρος

ἓν ἔτι ζητῶ· πῶς ἤν τις ὄφλῃ παρὰ τοῖς ἄρχουσι δίκην τῳ,
655

πόθεν ἐκτείσει ταύτην; οὐ γὰρ τῶν κοινῶν γʼ ἐστὶ δίκαιον.

Πραξάγορα

ἀλλʼ οὐδὲ δίκαι πρῶτον ἔσονται.

Βλέπυρος

τουτὶ τοὔπος σʼ ἐπιτρίψει.

Πραξάγορα

κἀγὼ ταύτην γνώμην ἐθέμην· τοῦ γὰρ τάλαν οὕνεκʼ ἔσονται;

Βλέπυρος

πολλῶν οὕνεκα νὴ τὸν Ἀπόλλω· πρῶτον δʼ ἑνὸς οὕνεκα δήπου,

ἤν τις ὀφείλων ἐξαρνῆται.
660

Πραξάγορα

πόθεν οὖν ἐδάνεισʼ ὁ δανείσας

ἐν τῷ κοινῷ πάντων ὄντων; κλέπτων δήπουʼ στʼ ἐπίδηλος.

Πραξάγορα

ἀπὸ τῆς μάζης ἧς σιτεῖται· ταύτης γὰρ ὅταν τις ἀφαιρῇ,
665

οὐχ ὑβριεῖται φαύλως οὕτως αὖθις τῇ γαστρὶ κολασθείς.

Blepyrus

635 But if we live in this fashion, how will each one know his children?

Praxagora

The youngest will look upon the oldest as their fathers.

Blepyrus

Ah! how heartily they will strangle all the old men, since even now, when each one knows his father, they make no bones about 640 strangling him! then, my word! won't they just scorn and crap upon the old folks!

Praxagora

But those around will prevent it. Hitherto, when anyone saw an old man beaten, he would not meddle, because it did not concern him; but now each will fear the sufferer may be his own father and such violence will be stopped.

Blepyrus

What you say is not so silly after all; but it would be highly unpleasant were Epicurus 645 and Leucolophas to come up and call me father.

Chremes

But it would be far worse, were ...

Blepyrus

Were what?

Chremes

... Aristyllus to embrace you and style you his father.

Blepyrus

He'll regret it if he does!

Chremes

For you would smell vilely of mint if he kissed you. But he was born before the decree was carried, so that you have not 650 to fear his kiss.

Blepyrus

It would be awful. But who will till the soil?

Praxagora

The slaves. Your only cares will be to scent yourself, and to go and dine, when the shadow of the gnomon is ten feet long on the dial.

Blepyrus

But how shall we obtain clothing? Tell me that!

Praxagora

You will first wear out those you have, and then we women will weave you others.

Blepyrus

655 Now another point: if the magistrates condemn a citizen to the payment of a fine, how is he going to do it? Out of the public funds? That would not be right surely.

Praxagora

But there will be no more lawsuits.

Blepyrus

This rule will ruin you.

Praxagora

I think so too. Besides, my dear, why should there be lawsuits?

Blepyrus

Oh! for a thousand reasons, by Apollo! Firstly, 660 because a debtor denies his obligation.

Praxagora

But where will the lender get the money to lend, if all is in common? unless he steals it out of the treasury? and he could not hide that!

Blepyrus

Well thought out, by Demeter! But tell me this: here are some men who are returning from a feast and are drunk and they strike some passer-by; how are they going to pay the fine? Ah! you are puzzled now!

Praxagora

665 They will have to take it out of their pittance; and being thus punished through their belly, they will not care to begin again.