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Ἄδικος Λόγος

καὶ μὴν πάλαι γʼ ἐπνιγόμην τὰ σπλάγχνα κἀπεθύμουν

ἅπαντα ταῦτʼ ἐναντίαις γνώμαισι συνταράξαι.

ἐγὼ γὰρ ἥττων μὲν λόγος διʼ αὐτὸ τοῦτʼ ἐκλήθην

ἐν τοῖσι φροντισταῖσιν, ὅτι πρώτιστος ἐπενόησα

τοῖσιν νόμοις καὶ ταῖς δίκαις τἀναντίʼ ἀντιλέξαι.
1040

καὶ τοῦτο πλεῖν ἢ μυρίων ἔστʼ ἄξιον στατήρων,

αἱρούμενον τοὺς ἥττονας λόγους ἔπειτα νικᾶν.

σκέψαι δὲ τὴν παίδευσιν ᾗ πέποιθεν ὡς ἐλέγξω,

ὅστις σε θερμῷ φησι λοῦσθαι πρῶτον οὐκ ἐάσειν.

καίτοι τίνα γνώμην ἔχων ψέγεις τὰ θερμὰ λουτρά;
1045

Δίκαιος Λόγος

ὁτιὴ κάκιστόν ἐστι καὶ δειλὸν ποιεῖ τὸν ἄνδρα.

Ἄδικος Λόγος

ἐπίσχες· εὐθὺς γάρ σʼ ἔχω μέσον λαβὼν ἄφυκτον.

καί μοι φράσον, τῶν τοῦ Διὸς παίδων τίνʼ ἄνδρʼ ἄριστον

ψυχὴν νομίζεις, εἰπέ, καὶ πλείστους πόνους πονῆσαι.

Δίκαιος Λόγος

ἐγὼ μὲν οὐδένʼ Ἡρακλέους βελτίονʼ ἄνδρα κρίνω.
1050

Ἄδικος Λόγος

ποῦ ψυχρὰ δῆτα πώποτʼ εἶδες Ἡράκλεια λουτρά;

καίτοι τίς ἀνδρειότερος ἦν;

Δίκαιος Λόγος

ταῦτʼ ἐστὶ ταῦτʼ ἐκεῖνα,

ἃ τῶν νεανίσκων ἀεὶ διʼ ἡμέρας λαλούντων

πλῆρες τὸ βαλανεῖον ποιεῖ, κενὰς δὲ τὰς παλαίστρας.

Ἄδικος Λόγος

εἶτʼ ἐν ἀγορᾷ τὴν διατριβὴν ψέγεις· ἐγὼ δʼ ἐπαινῶ.
1055

εἰ γὰρ πονηρὸν ἦν, Ὅμηρος οὐδέποτʼ ἂν ἐποίει

τὸν Νέστορʼ ἀγορητὴν ἂν οὐδὲ τοὺς σοφοὺς ἅπαντας.

ἄνειμι δῆτʼ ἐντεῦθεν ἐς τὴν γλῶτταν, ἣν ὁδὶ μὲν

οὔ φησι χρῆναι τοὺς νέους ἀσκεῖν, ἐγὼ δέ φημι.

καὶ σωφρονεῖν αὖ φησι χρῆναι· δύο κακὼ μεγίστω.
1060

ἐπεὶ σὺ διὰ τὸ σωφρονεῖν τῷ πώποτʼ εἶδες ἤδη

ἀγαθάν τι γενόμενον, φράσον, καί μʼ ἐξέλεγξον εἰπών.

Δίκαιος Λόγος

πολλοῖς. ὁ γοῦν Πηλεὺς ἔλαβε διὰ τοῦτο τὴν μάχαιραν.

Ἄδικος Λόγος

μάχαιραν; ἀστεῖόν γε κέρδος ἔλαβεν ὁ κακοδαίμων.

Ὑπέρβολος δʼ οὑκ τῶν λύχνων πλεῖν ἢ τάλαντα πολλὰ
1065

εἴληφε διὰ πονηρίαν, ἀλλʼ οὐ μὰ Δίʼ οὐ μάχαιραν.

Clouds. Aristophanes. ed. F. W. Hall, ed. William M. Geldart. Oxford. 1906.

Sponsored by Perseus Project, Tufts University.

Funding provided by The Annenberg CPB/Project.

Current edition Perseus

Νεφέλαι (Greek) (Aristophanes. Aristophanis Comoediae, Vol. 1. Hall, F. W. and Geldart, William M., editors. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1906.)

Translations (2)

Clouds Perseus (Aristophanes. The Comedies of Aristophanes, Vol. I. Hickie, William James, translator. Bohn: London, 1853.) — 1036 focus

Unjust Cause.

And yet I was choking in my heart, and was longing to confound all these with contrary maxims. For I have been called among the deep thinkers the worse cause on this very account, that I first contrived how

to speak against both law and justice; and this art is worth more than ten thousand staters, that one should choose the worse cause, and nevertheless be victorious. But mark how I will confute the system of education on which he relies, who says, in the first place, that he will not permit you to be washed with warm water.
1040

And yet, on what principle do you blame the warm baths?
1045

Just Cause.

Because it is most vile, and makes a man cowardly.

Unjust Cause.

Stop! For immediately I seize and hold you by the waist without escape. Come, tell me, which of the sons of Jupiter do you deem to have been the bravest in soul, and to have undergone most labours?

Just Cause.

I consider no man superior to Hercules.
1050

Unjust Cause.

Where, pray, did you ever see cold Herculean baths? And yet, who was more valiant than he?

Just Cause.

These are the very things which make the bath full of youths always chattering all day long, but the palaestras empty.

Unjust Cause.

You next find fault with their living in the market-place; but I commend it. For if it had been bad, Homer would never have been for representing Nestor as an orator; nor all the other wise men. I will return, then, from thence to the tongue, which this fellow says our youths ought not to exercise, while I maintain they should.
1055

And again, he says they ought to be modest: two very great evils. For tell me to whom you have ever seen any good accrue through modesty and confute me by your words.
1060

Just Cause.

To many. Peleus, at any rate, received his sword on account of it.

Unjust Cause.

A sword? Marry, he got a pretty piece of luck, the poor wretch! While Hyperbolus, he of the lamps, got more than many talents by his villainy, but by Jupiter, no sword!

English (Sanjaya, generated; selected passages) (OCR draft) Experimental (Source: pnadelofficial/aristophanes-sanjaya, commit c319590c139e5603e71f0699caa0663d823af8ad. Machine-generated source annotations retained; see Sanjaya import audit for coverage and limitations.) — 1036 focus

Unjust Argument: And indeed, for a long time now I have been having my entrails choked and I have been longing for it.

Unjust Speech: to overthrow all these things with opposing opinions.

Unjust Speech: For on account of this very thing I was called inferior.

Unjust Argument: among the men of thought, because I was the first to devise it

Unjust Argument: to speak against the laws and the courts in the opposite manner.

1040

Unjust Speech: and this is worth more than ten thousand staters,

Unjust Speech: to choose the weaker arguments and then to win.

Unjust Speech: Consider the education with which I am confident that I will refute you.

Unjust Speech: whoever says that you should bathe in warm water first will not allow it.

Unjust Argument: and yet, what opinion having do you criticize the warm baths?

1045

Just Argument: for it is the very worst thing and makes the man a coward.

Unjust Argument: Stop! For I shall immediately have you, having seized you in the middle, escapeless.

Unjust Speech: and tell me, which of Zeus's sons is the best man?

Unjust Speech: you think it has a soul, tell me, and has undergone the greatest hardships.

Just Argument: As for me, I judge that no man is better than Heracles.

1050

Unjust Speech: where, pray tell, have you ever seen cold baths, Heraclia?

Unjust Argument: and yet, who was braver?

Just Argument: these things are those things,

Just Argument: which [things] the young men always talk about during the day

Just Argument: it makes the baths full, but the wrestling schools empty.

Unjust Argument: Then you criticize the discourse in the market-place; but I praise it.

1055

Unjust Argument: for if it were bad, Homer would never have made it.

Unjust Speech: he would not even have been a speaker, not even by all the wise men.

Unjust Argument: 'I shall now depart from here to the tongue, which this one...

Unjust Argument: he says that the young men should not train, but I say they should.

Unjust Argument: And again he says that one ought to be prudent; two very great evils.

1060

Unjust Argument: since, because of your being sensible, you have never yet seen anything.

Unjust Speech: tell me, having become something good, and refute me by saying.

Just Argument: to many. For certainly Peleus took the sword for this reason.

Unjust Speech: a sword? A witty profit indeed the wretched one has taken.

Unjust Speech: Hyperbolus, not from the lamps, but from many talents.

1065

Unjust Argument: he has taken [it] through wickedness, but by Zeus, not a sword.

Commentary

Commentary (Sanjaya, generated; selected passages) (OCR draft) (Source: pnadelofficial/aristophanes-sanjaya, commit c319590c139e5603e71f0699caa0663d823af8ad. Machine-generated source annotations retained; see Sanjaya import audit for coverage and limitations.) focus

1061. mvp-tlg0019-tlg003-sanjaya-com-eng1-80

Line 1061

ἐπεὶ σὺ διὰ τὸ σωφρονεῖν τῷ πώποτʼ εἶδες ἤδη

The construction πώποτ' εἶδες ἤδη presents a notable semantic tension: the negative indefinite pronoun πώποτε (never) is reinforced by the negative prefix in the compound πώποτ' (a crasis of πώποτε), yet it is immediately modified by ἤδη (already). This creates an ironic hyperbole where Strepsiades claims he has 'never yet' seen something, while the particle ἤδη suggests the event is on the verge of happening or is being presented as a culmination of a long wait. The syntax relies on the colloquial intensification common in Old Comedy, where the 'never' is not absolute negation but a rhetorical device to heighten the absurdity of the situation (that he has never seen a cloud before despite living in Athens).

Aristophanes Clouds 1036

ed. F. W. Hall, ed. William M. Geldart

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Δίκαιος Λόγος

ὁτιὴ κάκιστόν ἐστι καὶ δειλὸν ποιεῖ τὸν ἄνδρα.

Δίκαιος Λόγος

ἐγὼ μὲν οὐδένʼ Ἡρακλέους βελτίονʼ ἄνδρα κρίνω.
1050

Ἄδικος Λόγος

ποῦ ψυχρὰ δῆτα πώποτʼ εἶδες Ἡράκλεια λουτρά;

καίτοι τίς ἀνδρειότερος ἦν;

Δίκαιος Λόγος

ταῦτʼ ἐστὶ ταῦτʼ ἐκεῖνα,

ἃ τῶν νεανίσκων ἀεὶ διʼ ἡμέρας λαλούντων

πλῆρες τὸ βαλανεῖον ποιεῖ, κενὰς δὲ τὰς παλαίστρας.

Δίκαιος Λόγος

πολλοῖς. ὁ γοῦν Πηλεὺς ἔλαβε διὰ τοῦτο τὴν μάχαιραν.

Current edition Perseus

Just Cause.

Because it is most vile, and makes a man cowardly.

Unjust Cause.

Stop! For immediately I seize and hold you by the waist without escape. Come, tell me, which of the sons of Jupiter do you deem to have been the bravest in soul, and to have undergone most labours?

Just Cause.

I consider no man superior to Hercules.
1050

Unjust Cause.

Where, pray, did you ever see cold Herculean baths? And yet, who was more valiant than he?

Just Cause.

These are the very things which make the bath full of youths always chattering all day long, but the palaestras empty.

Just Cause.

To many. Peleus, at any rate, received his sword on account of it.

Unjust Cause.

A sword? Marry, he got a pretty piece of luck, the poor wretch! While Hyperbolus, he of the lamps, got more than many talents by his villainy, but by Jupiter, no sword!

Commentary

Line 1061

Stable identifiers

Search the Perseus Catalog for:

Search the Perseus Catalog for:

Δίκαιος Λόγος ὁτιὴ κάκιστόν ἐστι καὶ δειλὸν ποιεῖ τὸν ἄνδρα.

Δίκαιος Λόγος ἐγὼ μὲν οὐδένʼ Ἡρακλέους βελτίονʼ ἄνδρα κρίνω. 1050

Ἄδικος Λόγος ποῦ ψυχρὰ δῆτα πώποτʼ εἶδες Ἡράκλεια λουτρά; καίτοι τίς ἀνδρειότερος ἦν;

Δίκαιος Λόγος ταῦτʼ ἐστὶ ταῦτʼ ἐκεῖνα, ἃ τῶν νεανίσκων ἀεὶ διʼ ἡμέρας λαλούντων πλῆρες τὸ βαλανεῖον ποιεῖ, κενὰς δὲ τὰς παλαίστρας.

Δίκαιος Λόγος πολλοῖς. ὁ γοῦν Πηλεὺς ἔλαβε διὰ τοῦτο τὴν μάχαιραν.

Current edition Perseus

Just Cause. Because it is most vile, and makes a man cowardly.

Unjust Cause. Stop! For immediately I seize and hold you by the waist without escape. Come, tell me, which of the sons of Jupiter do you deem to have been the bravest in soul, and to have undergone most labours?

Just Cause. I consider no man superior to Hercules. 1050

Unjust Cause. Where, pray, did you ever see cold Herculean baths? And yet, who was more valiant than he?

Just Cause. These are the very things which make the bath full of youths always chattering all day long, but the palaestras empty.

Just Cause. To many. Peleus, at any rate, received his sword on account of it.

Unjust Cause. A sword? Marry, he got a pretty piece of luck, the poor wretch! While Hyperbolus, he of the lamps, got more than many talents by his villainy, but by Jupiter, no sword!

Commentary

Line 1061

Stable identifiers

Δίκαιος Λόγος

ὁτιὴ κάκιστόν ἐστι καὶ δειλὸν ποιεῖ τὸν ἄνδρα.

Δίκαιος Λόγος

ἐγὼ μὲν οὐδένʼ Ἡρακλέους βελτίονʼ ἄνδρα κρίνω.
1050

Ἄδικος Λόγος

ποῦ ψυχρὰ δῆτα πώποτʼ εἶδες Ἡράκλεια λουτρά;

καίτοι τίς ἀνδρειότερος ἦν;

Δίκαιος Λόγος

ταῦτʼ ἐστὶ ταῦτʼ ἐκεῖνα,

ἃ τῶν νεανίσκων ἀεὶ διʼ ἡμέρας λαλούντων

πλῆρες τὸ βαλανεῖον ποιεῖ, κενὰς δὲ τὰς παλαίστρας.

Δίκαιος Λόγος

πολλοῖς. ὁ γοῦν Πηλεὺς ἔλαβε διὰ τοῦτο τὴν μάχαιραν.

Just Cause.

Because it is most vile, and makes a man cowardly.

Unjust Cause.

Stop! For immediately I seize and hold you by the waist without escape. Come, tell me, which of the sons of Jupiter do you deem to have been the bravest in soul, and to have undergone most labours?

Just Cause.

I consider no man superior to Hercules.
1050

Unjust Cause.

Where, pray, did you ever see cold Herculean baths? And yet, who was more valiant than he?

Just Cause.

These are the very things which make the bath full of youths always chattering all day long, but the palaestras empty.

Just Cause.

To many. Peleus, at any rate, received his sword on account of it.

Unjust Cause.

A sword? Marry, he got a pretty piece of luck, the poor wretch! While Hyperbolus, he of the lamps, got more than many talents by his villainy, but by Jupiter, no sword!