Homer Iliad 4.350

A. T. Murray (Translator)

Iliad. Homer. A. T. Murray (Translator). London. 1924-1925.

Sponsored by Perseus Project, Tufts University.

Funding provided by The Annenberg CPB/Project.

Current edition Perseus

Iliad (English) (Homer. The Iliad, Volume 1-2. Murray, A. T. (Augustus Taber), translator. London: William Heinmann; New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1924-1925.)

Editions (1)
Ἰλιάς Perseus (Homer. Homeri Opera, Volumes 1-2. Monro, D. B. (David Binning), editor; Allen, Thomas W. (Thomas William), editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1908-1920.) — 4.350 focus
Ἀτρεΐδη ποῖόν σε ἔπος φύγεν ἕρκος ὀδόντων;
350
πῶς δὴ φῂς πολέμοιο μεθιέμεν ὁππότʼ Ἀχαιοὶ
Τρωσὶν ἐφʼ ἱπποδάμοισιν ἐγείρομεν ὀξὺν Ἄρηα;
ὄψεαι αἴ κʼ ἐθέλῃσθα καὶ αἴ κέν τοι τὰ μεμήλῃ
Τηλεμάχοιο φίλον πατέρα προμάχοισι μιγέντα
Τρώων ἱπποδάμων· σὺ δὲ ταῦτʼ ἀνεμώλια βάζεις.
355
Translations (8)
Iliad Perseus (Homer. The Iliad of Homer, rendered into English prose for the use of those who cannot read the original. Butler, Samuel, 1835-1902, translator. London: Longmans, Green, and Co, 1898.) — 4.349 focus
English (Butler, rev. Nagy et al., 2020) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (Butler, rev. Nagy et al., 2020)) — 4.350 focus
“Son of Atreus, what are you talking about? How can you say that we are slack? When the Achaeans are in full fight with the Trojans, breakers of horses, you shall see, if you care to do so, that the father of Telemachus will join battle with the foremost [355] of them. You are talking idly.”
English (William Cullen Bryant, 1870) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (William Cullen Bryant, 1870)) — 4.350 focus
The man of many arts, Ulysses, spake,
And frowned: "O Atreus' son! what words are these
440
Which pass thy lips? How canst thou say that we
Avoid the battle? Ever when the Greeks
Seek bloody conflict with the Trojan knights,
Thou, if thou wilt, and if thou givest heed
To things like these, shalt with thine eyes behold
445
The father of Telemachus engaged
In combat with the foremost knights that form
The Trojan van. Thou utterest empty words."
King Agamemnon, when he saw the chief
Offended, changed his tone, and, smiling, said: -
450
"Son of Laertes, nobly born and wise
Ulysses! It is not for me to chide
Nor to exhort thee, for thy heart, I know,
Counsels thee kindly toward me, and thy thought
Agrees with mine. We will discuss all this
455
Hereafter. If just now too harsh a word
Was uttered, may the immortals make it vain!"
So saying, he departed, and went on
To others. By his steeds and by his car,
That shone with fastenings of brass, he found
460
The son of Tydeus, large-souled Diomed,
And Sthenelus, the son of Capaneus,
Standing beside him. Looking at them both,
King Agamemnon to Tydides spake
In wingèd words, and thus reproved the chief: -
465
"O son of Tydeus, that undaunted knight!
What is there to appall thee? Why look through
The spaces that divide the warlike ranks?
Not thus did Tydeus feel the touch of fear,
But ever foremost of his warriors fought.
470
So they declare who saw his deeds, for I
Was never with him, nor have ever seen
The hero. Yet they say that he excelled
All others. Certain is it that he once
Entered Mycenae as a friendly guest,
475
With no array of soldiery, but came
With godlike Polynices. 'T was the time
When warrior-bands were gathered to besiege
The sacred walls of Thebes, and earnestly
They prayed that from Mycenæ they might lead
480
Renowned auxiliars to the war, and we
Would willingly have given the aid they asked, —
For we approved the prayer, but Jove, with signs
Of angry omen, changed our purposes.
The chiefs departed, journeying on to where
485
Asopus flows through reeds and grass, and thence
The Achaians sent an embassy to Thebes
By Tydeus. There he met the many sons
Of Cadmus at the banquets in the hall
Of valiant Eteocles. Though alone
490
Among so many, and a stranger-guest,
The hero feared them not, but challenged them
To vie with him in games; and easily
He won the victory, such aid was given
By Pallas. Then the sons of Cadmus, skilled
495
In horsemanship, were wroth, and privily
Sent fifty armed youths to lie in wait
For his return. Two leaders had the band, -
Maion, the son of Hæmon, like a god
In form, and Lycophontes, brave in war,
500
Son of Autophonos. A bloody death
Did Tydeus give the youths. He slew them all
Save Maion, whom he suffered to return,
Obedient to an omen from the gods.
Such was Ætolian Tydeus; but his son,
505
A better speaker, is less brave in war."
English (Alexander Pope, 1720, ed. Watson, 1857) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (Alexander Pope, 1720, ed. Watson, 1857)) — 4.350 focus
'Take back th' unjust reproach! Behold we stand
'Sheath'd in bright arms, and but expect command.
405
'If glorious deeds afford thy soul delight,
'Behold me plunging in the thickest fight.
'Then give thy warrior-chief a warrior's due,
'Who dares to act whate'er thou dar'st to view.'
English (Thomas Hobbes, 1667, ed. Molesworth 1843) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (Thomas Hobbes, 1667, ed. Molesworth 1843)) — 4.350 focus
English (George Chapman, 1611, ed. Hooper 1857) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (George Chapman, 1611, ed. Hooper 1857)) — 4.350 focus
English (William Cowper, 1791, ed. Southey) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (William Cowper, 1791, ed. Southey)) — 4.350 focus
English (F. W. Newman, 1856) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (F. W. Newman, 1856)) — 4 focus

Notes on the current edition

Iliad

1. 181.1

New Alexandria Commentaries

Douglas Frame

analysis of the foreshadowing of Diomedes’ role in the second segment of the poem

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analysis of the correspondences between Iliad and Solon frr. regarding Athena’s protection (of Athens/Diomedes…)

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Gregory Nagy

The Trojan War is being fought here as if for the very first time. There is a sense of novelty at first in contemplating all the violent woundings and deaths yet to follow. Of special interest is all the beautiful detail lavished on the wounding of Menelaos: it is as if his bleeding wound here could be pictured as the original trauma of the Trojan War.

draft js image errorImage: The healer Makhaon attends to the wounded Menelaos. Engraving by Francesco Nenci for an edition of the Iliad published in 1838.

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Agamemnon starts quarreling with Diomedes, as signaled by neikeîn ‘quarrel with’ at I.04.368. The over-king’s language of blame here is meant to diminish the epic reputation of Diomedes and his chariot-driver Sthenelos, who were prominent heroes in the Theban Wars epic tradition of the past before they became heroes also in the Trojan Wars epic tradition of the present. Diomedes and Sthenelos were main characters in the epic tradition known as the Sons of the Seven against Thebes, or Epigonoi, while their fathers Tydeus and Kapaneus were the main characters in the earlier epic tradition known as the Seven against Thebes. In terms of the blame directed at Diomedes and Sthenelos by Agamemnon, the fathers must have been better than the sons. But the rejoinder of Sthenelos at I.04.404–410 make an opposite claim: the sons were really better than the fathers, since they succeeded in capturing Thebes, whereas the fathers failed. These epic themes are comparable to the Hesiodic reference at Works and Days 156–173 to both the Theban and the Trojan Wars: here too, the burning question is whether a given generation of heroes in the present is superior or inferior to the immediately preceding generation of heroes in the past.

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The periphrasis of the name Eteokléēs here as bíē Eteoklēeíē is comparable to the periphrasis of the name Hērakléēs as biē Hēraklēeíē. See the comment on I.02.658. The element kleos in these names of Hēraklēs and Eteoklēs signals an epic theme, so that the names Hērakléēs and Eteokléēs are simultaneously treated as the epics belonging to Hēraklēs and Eteoklēs.

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This verse indicates that the goddess Athena can be responsible for the nīkē ‘victory’ of a hero in an athletic event, not only in events of warfare. In most Homeric situations, however, it is Zeus who is primarily responsible for heroic victory.

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Richard Martin

Book 4 of the poem is a good place to begin observing the poetics of flyting. The key lines for identifying this activity as part of the authoritative speech of muthos are 4.356-57: "Smiling at him Agamemnon addressed him, as he knew of his anger, and took back the muthos." The speech thus referred to on its retraction had been labeled at 4.336 with the verb neikessen. This co-occurrence confirms that each speech Agamemnon makes in the episode is an instantiation of muthos discourse. Twice, further (4.337, 4.369), the introduction to Agamemnon's speeches couples the verb neikō with the formula "he spoke winged words," also a regular introduction to directives—further confirmation that flyting speeches represent a form of muthos (Martin 1993:68-69).

Not only is the diction of the speech introductions standardized; Agamemnon's rhetorical tacks also follow a pattern. He begins his three neikos speeches (as distinct from his "gentle words" to Idomeneus, the Ajaxes, and Nestor at 4.256, 285, and 313) with questions: "Argives, disgraces, are you not ashamed?" (4.242); "Why do you stand off shrinking in fear?" (4.340); "Why do you cower, why do you steal glances at the banks of war?" (4.371). Next, he compares his addressees to scared animals. His general rebuke to the Argives pictures them as fawns halted by fear (4.243-45); to Odysseus and Diomedes he uses the verb kataptōssō (4.340, 4.371), related to the word for "rabbit." The final strategy relies on privileging another place, implying that the addressee occupies a position of no importance: to the Argives, engagement in battle is contrasted with waiting by the ships; Odysseus and Menestheus are told they prefer the dais to battle (4.343-46); Diomedes is provoked by mention of his father Tydeus' exploits at Thebes (Martin 1993:69-70).

It is not coincidental that Agamemnon selects Odysseus and Diomedes as targets: these two heroes pose the greatest threat, next to Achilles, in their verbal abilities. Odysseus deftly parries the accusation of laxness with a rhetorical question, then shifts to speak of the future: "You will see the father of Telemakhos mixing in the front lines" (4.354). Finally, he criticizes Agamemnon's style of speech: "You are talking idly" (anemōlia bazeis, 4.355). Agamemnon's response certifies that Odysseus defeated him verbally: he takes back the neikos speech, denying that he was even attempting to blame Odysseus (4.359), and adopts Odysseus' own poetic formulation to waft away his previous speech: "May the gods make all these things like the winds" (metamōnia—cf. anemōlia earlier, both from the noun anemos, "wind") (Martin 1993:70-71).

If Odysseus resists Agamemnon by clever riposte, Diomedes' strategy is cunning silence. Agamemnon has baited a trap: "Such was Tydeus. But the son he begat is worse in war—better in speaking" (4.399-400). Under these terms, were Diomedes to attempt an Odyssean reply, he would simply affirm the accusation that he is a better talker than fighter. The "silent" answer works because it constitutes an ambiguous sign. The rules of the flyting genre allow of two interpretations: silence can be read as incompetence in the genre of insults, or as a strategic aloofness asserting social superiority over the abuser. Diomedes knows the rules well enough to rebuke his companion Sthenelos, who has tried to counteract Agamemnon's insults (4.404-10): by directing his reply to Sthenelos and getting him to consent to a muthos of command (4.412), Diomedes acknowledges that he knows the ambiguous import of his silence in the duel (Martin 1993:71).

References

Martin, R. P. 1993. The Language of Heroes: Speech and Performance in the Iliad. Ithaca.

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