Homer Iliad 14.103

ed. Robert Southey

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Iliad. Homer. ed. Robert Southey. London. 1847.

Sponsored by Tufts University.

Current edition Experimental

English (William Cowper, 1791, ed. Southey) (OCR draft) (English) (English (William Cowper, 1791, ed. Southey))

Provisional text from uncorrected OCR; expect errors.

Editions (1)
Ἰλιάς Perseus (Homer. Homeri Opera, Volumes 1-2. Monro, D. B. (David Binning), editor; Allen, Thomas W. (Thomas William), editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1908-1920.) — 14.103 focus
Translations (8)
Iliad Perseus (Homer. The Iliad, Volume 1-2. Murray, A. T. (Augustus Taber), translator. London: William Heinmann; New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1924-1925.) — 14.103 focus
Iliad Perseus (Homer. The Iliad of Homer, rendered into English prose for the use of those who cannot read the original. Butler, Samuel, 1835-1902, translator. London: Longmans, Green, and Co, 1898.) — 14.133 focus
English (Butler, rev. Nagy et al., 2020) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (Butler, rev. Nagy et al., 2020)) — 14.103 focus
Agamemnon answered, “Odysseus, your rebuke has stung me to the heart. [105] I am not, however, ordering the Achaeans to draw their ships into the sea whether they will or no. Some one, it may be, old or young, can offer us better counsel which I shall rejoice to hear.”
English (William Cullen Bryant, 1870) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (William Cullen Bryant, 1870)) — 14.103 focus
And Agamemnon, king of men, rejoined : -
"Thou touchest me, Ulysses, to the heart
With thy harsh censure; yet I did not give
125
Command to drag our good ships to the sea,
Against the will of the Greeks. And would there were
Some other, young or old, to counsel them
More prudently, for that would please me well.”
English (Alexander Pope, 1720, ed. Watson, 1857) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (Alexander Pope, 1720, ed. Watson, 1857)) — 14.103 focus
'Thy just reproofs' (Atrides calm replies,)
'Like arrows pierce me, for thy words are wise.
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'Unwilling as I am to lose the host,
'I force not Greece to quit this hateful coast.
'Glad I submit, whoe'er, or young or old,
'Aught, more conducive to our weal, unfold.'
English (Thomas Hobbes, 1667, ed. Molesworth 1843) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (Thomas Hobbes, 1667, ed. Molesworth 1843)) — 14.103 focus
English (George Chapman, 1611, ed. Hooper 1857) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (George Chapman, 1611, ed. Hooper 1857)) — 14.103 focus
English (F. W. Newman, 1856) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (F. W. Newman, 1856)) — 14 focus

New Alexandria Commentaries

Douglas Frame

example of Nestor as the symbol of nóos

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analysis of the connection of Nestor with noos, he as its personification

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comparison of Nestor and Polydamas, the counselors on their respective sides, in terms of noos (in the context of interpreting them in terms of the twin myth)

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example of the inherent opposition between verbs pheúgein and halonai. Compare to Il. XXI.493-495

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provides evidence for contention that Homer no longer understood the context and traditional meaning of ásmenoi because it has here lost its verbal force and functions as an adjective

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analysis of asmenos as having lost its original meaning and being understood as an adjective meaning “happy” in Homer, with this verse as an example

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Gregory Nagy

The momentum of the attacking Trojan warriors gets stalled here, since Hērā interrupts the ongoing Plan of Zeus. The goddess seduces the god, and the setting for their divine sexual encounter is the spectacular landscape of Mount Ida, which is the private abode of the thundering almighty. During the tryst of the god and the goddess, the Achaeans regain the upper hand in the fighting. But this new momentum is soon headed for a downturn. The divine interruption, despite all its cosmic sexual energy, becomes retrospectively a mere interlude in the narrative arc of the Iliad—once the tryst is over and the Plan of Zeus resumes its relentless course of action.

draft js image errorJuno and Jupiter. Detail from “Loves of the Gods,” fresco by Annibale Carracci (1560–1609). Annibale Carracci [Public domain], via Wikimedia Commons, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Carracci_-_Jupiter_et_Junon.jpeg.

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Again, as at I.13.227, the fear is expressed that the invading Achaean warriors could die nōnumnoi ‘nameless’ at Troy. On the connotations, which can be seen by way of comparing Hesiodic poetry, see the comment on I.12.079.

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example of ‘standard’ usage in Homeric quotations of Plato

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Leonard Muellner

analysis of the meaning of thēmis and the role of Themis

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in a list of attestations of genos eukhesthai einai and its transformations

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analysis of the classification and interrelationship of the different genos eukhesthai einai formulas

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Richard Martin

By Book 14, Diomedes has learned how to construct an impregnable speech by taking preemptive action against possible objections. As does Nestor, he prefaces his speech with disarming recollection of the past—his own ancestry in this case—and thus rejects possible claims that he is too young to speak well, while raising his status as a warrior by blood. As a result, his muthos is assured of success: "Therefore, you cannot devalue my muthos by saying I am strengthless and have a bad ancestry, whatever I say" (14.126-27). The poet concludes the speech with the same line that followed Nestor's exemplary muthos in Book 9: "Thus he spoke and then they listened and obeyed" (14.133 = 9.79) (Martin 1993:25).

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Diomedes' employment of genealogical recitation at 14.110-27 is a device for accomplishing his entry into the world of heroic speakers. The recitation of genealogy in poetic form is recognized throughout Africa as an essential social genre and holds a good claim to be one of the oldest Indo-European genres, attested in Irish, Welsh, Avestan, Old English, Norse, and non-Homeric Greek poetry. The role of genealogical memories within Iliadic speeches is oriented toward the hero's marking of his own deeds or to shaming another to act: Agamemnon and others use genealogical recitation with Diomedes himself at 4.375 and 5.813. Aeneas' use of the genre is ambiguous—he is characterized as "a master of poetic skills in the language of praise and blame," as his very name asserts, yet seems to spend an inordinate amount of time recounting his genealogy to face down Achilles before a duel (20.200-258), compared with Achilles, who can afford to wait until after the victim is dead (Martin 1993:85-86).

For the broader analysis of memory as a muthos genre, see the comment on Iliad 1.259-274.

References

Martin, R. P. 1993. The Language of Heroes: Speech and Performance in the Iliad. Ithaca.

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The style of giving more information by adding clauses can best be seen in longer stretches of Odysseus' speech. His reply to Agamemnon's proposal in Book 14 features at least one such clause in nearly every sentence: "Nor should you rule us, to whom Zeus granted . . . the raveling of wars" (14.85); "You wish to abandon Troy . . . for which we suffer many evils" (89); "Silence, lest another Achaean hear the muthos / which a man, at least, might not draw all through the mouth, a man who knew to speak close-fitting things" (91, 92). These eight lines contain four relative clauses, compared with Agamemnon's immediately preceding speech, in which only two occur over seventeen lines (67, 81). The difference in their preferred syntactic strategies explains a good deal of the tone of each hero's speech: curt and hard-bitten for Agamemnon, fluid and accommodating for Odysseus (Martin 1993:122-23).

The realization that speech can be good or bad prompts Odysseus' remark that Diomedes should neither praise nor blame too much among a knowing audience (10.249). The urge for proportionate speech explains his criticism of Agamemnon's style, since Agamemnon's call to retreat is out of all proportion with the heroic ethos: it is, to Odysseus, a muthos that one can hardly pronounce, the opposite of an act of speech (Martin 1993:122-23).

For the broader analysis of Odysseus' style, see the comment on Iliad 3.212-223.

References

Martin, R. P. 1993. The Language of Heroes: Speech and Performance in the Iliad. Ithaca.

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