Homer Iliad 8.425

Samuel Butler (Translator)

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With this she left them, and Hera said to Athena, “Truly, child of aegis-bearing Zeus, I am not for fighting men’s battles further in defiance of Zeus. Let them live or die as luck [430] will have it, and let Zeus mete out his judgments upon the Trojans and Danaans according to his own pleasure.”

Iliad. Homer. Samuel Butler (Translator). London. 1898.

Current edition Experimental

English (Butler, rev. Nagy et al., 2020) (OCR draft) (English) (English (Butler, rev. Nagy et al., 2020))

Provisional text from uncorrected OCR; expect errors.

Editions (1)
Ἰλιάς Perseus (Homer. Homeri Opera, Volumes 1-2. Monro, D. B. (David Binning), editor; Allen, Thomas W. (Thomas William), editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1908-1920.) — 8.425 focus
Translations (8)
Iliad Perseus (Homer. The Iliad, Volume 1-2. Murray, A. T. (Augustus Taber), translator. London: William Heinmann; New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1924-1925.) — 8.425 focus
Iliad Perseus (Homer. The Iliad of Homer, rendered into English prose for the use of those who cannot read the original. Butler, Samuel, 1835-1902, translator. London: Longmans, Green, and Co, 1898.) — 8.432 focus
English (William Cullen Bryant, 1870) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (William Cullen Bryant, 1870)) — 8.425 focus
So spake fleet-footed Iris, and withdrew;
And thus again to Pallas Juno said: -
535
"Child of the Ægis-bearer! let us strive
With Jove no longer for the sake of men,
But let one perish and another live,
As chance may rule the hour, and let the God,
Communing with his secret mind, mete out
540
To Greeks and Trojans their just destiny."
She spake, and turned the firm-paced coursers back,
The coursers with fair-flowing manes. The Hours
Unyoked them, bound them to the ambrosial stalls,
And leaned against the shining walls the car;
545
While Juno and Minerva went among
The other deities and took their place
Upon their golden seats, though sad at heart.
Then with his steeds, and in his bright-wheeled car,
Came Jove from Ida to the dwelling-place
550
Of gods upon Olympus. There did he
Who shakes the islands loose the steeds and bring
The chariot to its place, and o'er it spread
Its covering of lawn. The Thunderer
Seated himself upon his golden throne,
555
The great Olympus trembling as he stepped;
While Juno and Minerva sat apart
Together, nor saluted him, nor asked
Of aught; but he perceived their thoughts and said:
"Juno and Pallas! why so sad? Not long
560
Ye toiled in glorious battle to destroy
The Trojans, whom ye hold in bitter hate:
This strength of mine, and this invincible arm
Not all the gods upon the Olympian mount
Can turn to flight, while your fair limbs were seized
565
With trembling ere ye entered on the shock
And havoc of the war. Now let me say -
And well the event would have fulfilled my words -
That, smitten with the thunder from my hand,
Your chariots never would have brought you back
570
To this Olympus and the abode of gods."
He spake; while Pallas and the queen of heaven
Repined with close-pressed lips, and in their hearts
Devised new mischiefs for the Trojan race.
Silent Minerva sat, nor dared express
575
The anger that she bore her father Jove;
But Juno could not curb her wrath, and spake:-
"What words, austere Saturnius, hast thou said?
Thou art, we know, invincible in might;
Yet must we sorrow for the heroic Greeks,
580
Who, by a cruel fate, are perishing.
We stand aloof from war, if thou require;
Yet would we counsel the Achaian host,
Lest by thy wrath they perish utterly."
English (Alexander Pope, 1720, ed. Watson, 1857) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (Alexander Pope, 1720, ed. Watson, 1857)) — 8.425 focus
Then, mounting on the pinions of the wind,
She flew; and Juno thus her rage resign'd:
525
English (Thomas Hobbes, 1667, ed. Molesworth 1843) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (Thomas Hobbes, 1667, ed. Molesworth 1843)) — 8.425 focus
English (George Chapman, 1611, ed. Hooper 1857) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (George Chapman, 1611, ed. Hooper 1857)) — 8.425 focus
English (William Cowper, 1791, ed. Southey) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (William Cowper, 1791, ed. Southey)) — 8.425 focus
English (F. W. Newman, 1856) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (F. W. Newman, 1856)) — 8 focus

New Alexandria Commentaries

Gregory Nagy

In my comments here on Rhapsody 8, I sense I am not far from reaching a critical mass of details that shed light on the unity and integrity of the Homeric Iliad. With the upcoming comments on Rhapsody 9, this sense will I hope reach a definitive stage.

draft js image error“Hera, Athena, and Iris in the Trojan War,” Jacques Réattu (1760–1833). Image via Wikimedia Commons.

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Richard Martin

The speech that Zeus addresses to all the Olympians at the beginning of Book 8 represents the ideal of the genre of commands (Martin 1993:54). It shares with all muthoi of command a concentration on the act to be performed by words. As with other muthoi, the speech thus labeled is subject to public scrutiny before an audience—it is a performance in a speech-act sense as well as in a wider social-poetic sense. As do other muthoi, it reaches for length and elaboration as an emblem of authoritative, important communication, and asserts the status of the speaker.

Zeus' speech outdoes other muthoi by exaggeration. The rhetorical distancing he accomplishes at 8.5-27 finds expression in a powerful image chosen to boast of his status: threatening to hurl any who disobey into Tartaros, he backs up his words by picturing the massed Olympians tugging at him by a golden chain. Though he might yank them up, together with earth and sea, the gods could not pull him down. In turning the horizontal line of communication among presumed equals into a vertical chain, Zeus enacts the gods' dependence on him and dramatizes his own rhetorical ability—the power of making convincing images—at the same time that he solidifies his political position. He is a master at the poetics of power. The muthos of what "might" happen is actually a projection of the current power configuration on Olympus, and functions like "myth" in the wider sense as a politically important act of symbolic discourse (Martin 1993:54-55).

It is characteristic of the greatest speakers in the poem that their muthoi often have a self-referential focus on the very act of speaking. Zeus prohibits the gods from supporting either side in the war but phrases this prohibition in terms of speech: rivals wish to "cut" his utterance (diakersai emon epos), as if it resembled the chain he mentions later. Along with this prohibition, Zeus introduces a positive injunction: "But all together praise (aineit'), so that I complete these deeds as quickly as possible" (8.7-9). The critical need for the approval of his Olympian audience—the "praise" alluded to at 8.9—shows how an oral culture's notions of performance structure the distribution of power. Only an acceptable "performance" of a proposal enables the speaker to accomplish his will; only a counter-performance, the actual voicing of "praise," certifies the audience's consent (Martin 1993:55-56).

The formulaic line "Act, but we other gods will not all approve" (epaineomen) occurs three times (4.29, 16.443, 22.181), each time marking the moments when Zeus has just suggested that a hero's life be saved. On two of these occasions, Hera identifies Zeus' proposal as a muthos, prefacing her reply with the formula, "O most dread son of Kronos, what sort of muthos have you said?" (4.25 = 16.440). The threat of implied public blame among the gods seems to force Zeus to yield, yet he appears prepared for this outcome. His muthoi that seek approval for intervention are in complete contrast with the muthos of Book 8 that prohibits interference—there he uses the rhetoric of force, but when plotting something contrary to the will of Athena and Hera, he portrays himself as undecided, adjusting his rhetoric accordingly (Martin 1993:56-57).

References

Martin, R. P. 1993. The Language of Heroes: Speech and Performance in the Iliad. Ithaca.

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