Homer Iliad 8.151

Samuel Butler (Translator)

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“Son of brave Tydeus,” replied Nestor, “what mean you? Though Hector say that you are a coward the Trojans and Dardanians will not believe him, [155] nor yet the wives of the mighty warriors whom you have laid low.”

Iliad. Homer. Samuel Butler (Translator). London. 1898.

Current edition Experimental

English (Butler, rev. Nagy et al., 2020) (OCR draft) (English) (English (Butler, rev. Nagy et al., 2020))

Provisional text from uncorrected OCR; expect errors.

Editions (1)
Ἰλιάς Perseus (Homer. Homeri Opera, Volumes 1-2. Monro, D. B. (David Binning), editor; Allen, Thomas W. (Thomas William), editor. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1908-1920.) — 8.151 focus
Translations (8)
Iliad Perseus (Homer. The Iliad, Volume 1-2. Murray, A. T. (Augustus Taber), translator. London: William Heinmann; New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1924-1925.) — 8.151 focus
Iliad Perseus (Homer. The Iliad of Homer, rendered into English prose for the use of those who cannot read the original. Butler, Samuel, 1835-1902, translator. London: Longmans, Green, and Co, 1898.) — 8.167 focus
English (William Cullen Bryant, 1870) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (William Cullen Bryant, 1870)) — 8.151 focus
And Nestor, the Gerenian knight, rejoined:-
"What, son of warlike Tydeus, hast thou said?
Though Hector call thee faint of heart, and weak
190
The Trojans and Dardanians, and the wives
Of the stout-hearted Trojans armed with shields,
Whose husbands in their youthful prime thy hand
Hath laid in dust, will not believe his words."
Thus having said, he turned the firm-paced steeds
195
Rearward, and mingled with the flying crowd.
And now the Trojans and their leader gave
A mighty cry, and poured on them a storm
Of deadly darts, and crested Hector raised
His thundering voice and shouted after them:-
200
"O son of Tydeus! the swift-riding Greeks
Have honored thee beyond all other men,
At banquets, with high place and delicate meats
And flowing cups. They will despise thee now,
For thou art like a woman. Timorous girl!
205
Take thyself hence, and never think that I
Shall yield to thee, that thou may'st climb our towers
And bear away our women in thy ships;
For I shall give thee first the doom of death."
He spake; and Diomed, in doubtful mood,
210
Questioned his spirit whether he should turn
His steeds and fight with Hector. Thrice the thought
Arose within his mind, and thrice on high
Uttered the all-forecasting Jupiter
His thunder from the Idean mount, a sign
215
Of victory changing to the Trojan side.
Then Hector to the Trojans called aloud: -
"Trojans and Lycians all, and ye who close
In deadly fight, the sons of Dardanus!
Acquit yourselves like men, my friends; recall
220
Your fiery valor now, for I perceive
The son of Saturn doth award to me
Victory and vast renown, and to the Greeks
Destruction. Fools! who built this slender wall
Which we contemn, which cannot stand before
225
The strength I bring; our steeds can overleap
The trench they digged. When I shall reach their fleet,
Remember the consuming power of fire,
That I may give their vessels to the flames,
And hew the Achaians down beside their prows,
230
While they are wrapped in the bewildering smoke."
He spake; and then he cheered his coursers thus:
"Xanthus, Podargus, Lampus nobly-bred,
And Æthon, now repay the generous care,
The pleasant grain which my Andromache,
235
Daughter of great Eëtion, largely gives.
She mingles wine that ye may drink at will
Ere yet she ministers to me, who boast
To be her youthful husband. Let us now
Pursue with fiery haste, that we may seize
240
The shield of Nestor, the great fame of which
Has reached to heaven, - an orb of massive gold
Even to the handles. Let us from the limbs
Of Diomed, the tamer of fleet steeds,
Strip off the glorious mail that Vulcan forged:
245
This done, our hope may be that all the Greeks
Will climb their galleys and depart to-night."
English (Alexander Pope, 1720, ed. Watson, 1857) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (Alexander Pope, 1720, ed. Watson, 1857)) — 8.151 focus
To whom Gerenian 1 Nestor thus replied:
'Gods! can thy courage fear the Phrygian's pride?
'Hector may vaunt, but who shall heed the boast?
185
'Not those who felt thy arm, the Dardan host,
'Nor Troy, yet bleeding in her heroes lost;
English (Thomas Hobbes, 1667, ed. Molesworth 1843) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (Thomas Hobbes, 1667, ed. Molesworth 1843)) — 8.151 focus
English (George Chapman, 1611, ed. Hooper 1857) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (George Chapman, 1611, ed. Hooper 1857)) — 8.151 focus
English (William Cowper, 1791, ed. Southey) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (William Cowper, 1791, ed. Southey)) — 8.151 focus
English (F. W. Newman, 1856) (OCR draft) Experimental (English (F. W. Newman, 1856)) — 8 focus

New Alexandria Commentaries

Gregory Nagy

In my comments here on Rhapsody 8, I sense I am not far from reaching a critical mass of details that shed light on the unity and integrity of the Homeric Iliad. With the upcoming comments on Rhapsody 9, this sense will I hope reach a definitive stage.

draft js image error“Hera, Athena, and Iris in the Trojan War,” Jacques Réattu (1760–1833). Image via Wikimedia Commons.

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Richard Martin

The speech that Zeus addresses to all the Olympians at the beginning of Book 8 represents the ideal of the genre of commands (Martin 1993:54). It shares with all muthoi of command a concentration on the act to be performed by words. As with other muthoi, the speech thus labeled is subject to public scrutiny before an audience—it is a performance in a speech-act sense as well as in a wider social-poetic sense. As do other muthoi, it reaches for length and elaboration as an emblem of authoritative, important communication, and asserts the status of the speaker.

Zeus' speech outdoes other muthoi by exaggeration. The rhetorical distancing he accomplishes at 8.5-27 finds expression in a powerful image chosen to boast of his status: threatening to hurl any who disobey into Tartaros, he backs up his words by picturing the massed Olympians tugging at him by a golden chain. Though he might yank them up, together with earth and sea, the gods could not pull him down. In turning the horizontal line of communication among presumed equals into a vertical chain, Zeus enacts the gods' dependence on him and dramatizes his own rhetorical ability—the power of making convincing images—at the same time that he solidifies his political position. He is a master at the poetics of power. The muthos of what "might" happen is actually a projection of the current power configuration on Olympus, and functions like "myth" in the wider sense as a politically important act of symbolic discourse (Martin 1993:54-55).

It is characteristic of the greatest speakers in the poem that their muthoi often have a self-referential focus on the very act of speaking. Zeus prohibits the gods from supporting either side in the war but phrases this prohibition in terms of speech: rivals wish to "cut" his utterance (diakersai emon epos), as if it resembled the chain he mentions later. Along with this prohibition, Zeus introduces a positive injunction: "But all together praise (aineit'), so that I complete these deeds as quickly as possible" (8.7-9). The critical need for the approval of his Olympian audience—the "praise" alluded to at 8.9—shows how an oral culture's notions of performance structure the distribution of power. Only an acceptable "performance" of a proposal enables the speaker to accomplish his will; only a counter-performance, the actual voicing of "praise," certifies the audience's consent (Martin 1993:55-56).

The formulaic line "Act, but we other gods will not all approve" (epaineomen) occurs three times (4.29, 16.443, 22.181), each time marking the moments when Zeus has just suggested that a hero's life be saved. On two of these occasions, Hera identifies Zeus' proposal as a muthos, prefacing her reply with the formula, "O most dread son of Kronos, what sort of muthos have you said?" (4.25 = 16.440). The threat of implied public blame among the gods seems to force Zeus to yield, yet he appears prepared for this outcome. His muthoi that seek approval for intervention are in complete contrast with the muthos of Book 8 that prohibits interference—there he uses the rhetoric of force, but when plotting something contrary to the will of Athena and Hera, he portrays himself as undecided, adjusting his rhetoric accordingly (Martin 1993:56-57).

References

Martin, R. P. 1993. The Language of Heroes: Speech and Performance in the Iliad. Ithaca.

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