Plutarch, De gloria Atheniensium, Frank Cole Babbitt (Translator), 4

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[4] Poetry also has won favour and esteem because it utters words which match the deeds, as Homer¹ says,

Many the lies that he spoke, but he made them all to seem truthful.

The story is also told that one of Menander’s² intimate friends said to him, The Dionysian Festival is almost here, Menander; haven’t you composed your comedy? Menander answered, By heaven, I have really composed the comedy: the plot’s all in order. But I still have to fit the lines to it. For even poets consider the subject matter more necessary and vital than the words.

When Pindar was still young, and prided himself on his felicitous use of words. Corinna warned him that his writing lacked refinement, since he did not introduce myths, which are the proper business of poetry, but used as a foundation for his work unusual and obsolete words, extensions of meaning, paraphrases, lyrics and rhythms, which are mere embellishments of the subject matter.³ So Pindar,⁴ giving all heed to her words, composed the famous lyric:

Ismenus, or Melia of the golden distaff,

Or Cadmus, or the holy race of men that were sown,

Or the mighty strength of Heracles,

Or the gladsome worship of Dionysus.

He showed it to Corinna, but she laughed and said that one should sow with the hand, not with the whole sack. For in truth Pindar had confused and jumbled together a seed-mixture, as it were, of myths, and poured them into his poem.⁵ That poetry concerns itself with the composition of mythological matters Plato⁶ also has stated. A myth aims at being a false tale, resembling a true one; wherefore it is far removed from actual events, if a tale is but a picture and an image of actuality, and a myth is but a picture and image of a tale. And thus those who write of imaginative exploits lag as far behind historians as persons who tell of deeds come short of those that do them.

De gloria Atheniensium. Plutarch. Frank Cole Babbitt (Translator). Cambridge, MA. 1936.

Sponsored by Perseus Project, Tufts University.

Funding provided by The National Endowment for the Humanities.

Current edition Perseus

Were the Athenians More Famous in War or in Wisdom? (English) (Plutarch. Moralia, Vol. IV. Babbitt, Frank Cole, translator. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press; London: William Heinemann Ltd., 1936 (printing).)

Editions (2)

Πότερον Ἀθηναῖοι κατὰ πόλεμον ἢ κατὰ σοφίαν ἐνδοξότεροι Perseus (Plutarch. Moralia, Vol. IV. Babbitt, Frank Cole, editor. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press; London: William Heinemann Ltd., 1936 (printing).) — 4 focus

[4] καὶ γὰρ ἡ ποιητικὴ χάριν ἔσχε καὶ τιμὴν τῷ ¹ τοῖς πεπραγμένοις ἐοικότα λέγειν, ὡς Ὅμηρος ἔφη

ἴσκε ² ψεύδεα πολλὰ λέγων ἐτύμοισιν ὁμοῖα.

λέγεται δὲ καὶ Μενάνδρῳ τῶν συνήθων τις εἰπεῖν, ἐγγὺς οὖν, Μένανδρε, τὰ Διονύσια, καὶ σὺ τὴν κωμῳδίαν οὐ πεποίηκας; τὸν δὲ ἀποκρίνασθαι, νὴ τοὺς θεοὺς ἔγωγε πεποίηκα τὴν κωμῳδίαν· 347f ᾠκονόμηται γὰρ ἡ διάθεσις· δεῖ δʼ αὐτῇ τὰ στιχίδια ἐπᾷσαι, ὅτι καὶ αὐτοὶ τὰ πράγματα τῶν λόγων ἀναγκαιότερα καὶ κυριώτερα νομίζουσιν.

ἡ δὲ Κόριννα τὸν Πίνδαρον, ὄντα νέον ἔτι καὶ τῇ λογιότητι σοβαρῶς χρώμενον, ἐνουθέτησεν ὡς ἄμουσον ὄντα καὶ ³ μὴ ποιοῦντα μύθους, ὃ τῆς ποιητικῆς ἔργον εἶναι συμβέβηκε, γλώσσας ⁴ δὲ καὶ καταχρήσεις καὶ μεταφοράσεις ⁵ καὶ μέλη καὶ ῥυθμοὺς 348a δʼ ἡδύσματα τοῖς πράγμασιν ὑποτιθέντα. ⁶ σφόδρʼ οὖν ὁ Πίνδαρος ἐπιστήσας τοῖς λεγομένοις ἐποίησεν ἐκεῖνο τὸ μέλος

Ἰσμηνὸν ἢ χρυσαλάκατον Μελίαν,

ἢ Κάδμον ἢ Σπαρτῶν ἱερὸν γένος ἀνδρῶν,

ἢ τὸ πάνυ ⁷ σθένος Ἡρακλέους

ἢ τὰν Διωνύσου πολυγαθέα τιμάν ⁸ .

δειξαμένου δὲ τῇ Κορίννῃ γελάσασα ἐκείνη τῇ χειρὶ δεῖν ἔφη σπείρειν, ἀλλὰ μὴ ὅλῳ τῷ θυλάκῳ. τῷ γὰρ ὄντι συγκεράσας καὶ συμφορήσας πανσπερμίαν τινὰ μύθων ὁ Πίνδαρος εἰς τὸ μέλος ἐξέχεεν. ἀλλʼ ὅτι μὲν ἡ ποιητικὴ περὶ μυθοποιίαν ἐστί καὶ Πλάτων εἴρηκεν. ὁ δὲ μῦθος εἶναι βούλεται λόγος ψευδὴς ἐοικὼς ἀληθινῷ· διὸ καὶ πολὺ τῶν ἔργων 348b ἀφέστηκεν, εἰ λόγος μὲν ἔργου, καὶ λόγου δὲ μῦθος εἰκὼν καὶ εἴδωλόν ἐστι. καὶ τοσοῦτον τῶν ἱστορούντων οἱ πλάττοντες τὰς πράξεις ὑστεροῦσιν, ὅσον ἀπολείπονται τῶν πραττόντων οἱ λέγοντες.

Πότερον Ἀθηναῖοι κατὰ πόλεμον ἢ κατὰ σοφίαν ἐνδοξότεροι Perseus (Plutarch. Plutarchi Chaeronensis Moralia, Vol II. Vernardakēs, Grēgorios N., editor. Leipzig. Teubner, 1889.) — 4 focus

[4] καὶ γὰρ ἡ ποιητικὴ χάριν ἔσχε καὶ τιμὴν τῷ ¹ 10 τοῖς πεπραγμένοις ἐοικότα λέγειν, ὡς Ὅμηρος ἔφη

ἴσκε ² ψεύδεα πολλὰ λέγων ἐτύμοισιν ὁμοῖα.

λέγεται δὲ καὶ Μενάνδρῳ τῶν συνήθων τις εἰπεῖν 347f ἐγγὺς οὖν Μένανδρε τὰ Διονύσια, καὶ σὺ τὴν κωμῳδίαν οὐ πεποίηκας; τὸν δʼ ἀποκρίνασθαι νὴ 15 τοὺς θεοὺς ἔγωγε πεποίηκα τὴν κωμῳδίαν· ᾠκονόμηται γὰρ ἡ διάθεσις· δεῖ δʼ αὐτῇ τὰ στιχίδια ἐπᾷσαι ὅτι ³ καὶ αὐτοὶ τὰ πράγματα τῶν λόγων ἀναγκαιότερα καὶ κυριώτερα νομίζουσιν. ἡ δὲ Κόριννα τὸν Πίνδαρον, ὄντα νέον ἔτι καὶ τῇ λογιότητι σοβαρῶς 20 χρώμενον, ἐνουθέτησεν ὡς ἄμουσον ὄντα μὴ ⁴ ποιοῦντα μύθους, ὃ τῆς ποιητικῆς ἔργον εἶναι συμβέβηκε· γλώσσας ⁵ δὲ καὶ καταχρήσεις καὶ μεταφράσεις καὶ μέλη καὶ ῥυθμοὺς ἡδύσματα τοῖς πράγμασιν 348a ὑποτίθεται. σφόδρʼ οὖν ὁ Πίνδαρος ἐπιστήσας 25 τοῖς λεγομένοις ἐποίησεν ἐκεῖνο τὸ μέλος

Ἰσμηνὸν ἢ χρυσαλάκατον Μελίαν,

⁶

ἢ Κάδμον ἢ Σπαρτῶν ἱερὸν γένος ἀνδρῶν,

ἢ τὸ πάνυ ⁷ σθένος Ἡρακλέους

ἢ τὰν Διωνύσου πολυγαθέα τιμάν. ⁸

5 δειξαμένου δὲ τῇ Κορίννῃ, γελάσασα ἐκείνη τῇ χειρὶ δεῖν ἔφη σπείρειν, ἀλλὰ μὴ ὅλῳ τῷ θυλάκῳ. τῷ γὰρ, ὄντι συγκεράσας καὶ συμφορήσας πανσπερμίαν τινὰ μύθων ὁ Πίνδαρος εἰς τὸ μέλος ἐξέχεεν. ἀλλʼ ὅτι μὲν ἡ ποιητικὴ περὶ μυθοποιίαν ἐστί, καὶ 10 Πλάτων ⁹ εἴρηκεν. ὁ δὲ μῦθος εἶναι βούλεται λόγος, 348b ψευδὴς ἐοικὼς ἀληθινῷ· διὸ καὶ πολὺ τῶν ἔργων ἀφέστηκεν, εἰ λόγος μὲν ἔργου, καὶ λόγου δὲ μῦθος εἰκὼν καὶ εἴδωλόν ἐστι. καὶ τοσοῦτον τῶν ἱστορούντων οἱ πλάττοντες τὰς πράξεις ὑστεροῦσιν, ὅσον 15 ἀπολείπονται τῶν πραττόντων οἱ λέγοντες.

Translations (1)

Whether the Athenians Were More Renowned For Their Warlike Achievements or For Their Learning Perseus (Plutarch. Plutarch's Morals, Vol. V. Goodwin, William W., editor; Smith, R, translator. Boston. Little, Brown, and Company, 1874.) — 4 focus

[4] But there is a certain grace and glory of the poetic art, when it resembles the grandeur of the actions themselves; according to that of Homer,

And many falsities he did unfold,

That looked like truth, so smoothly were they told.

It is reported also, that when one of his familiar friends said to Menander, The feasts of Bacchus are at hand, and thou hast made ne’er a comedy; he made him this answer: By all the Gods, I have made a comedy, for I have laid my plot; and there remains only to make the verses and measures to it. So that the poets themselves believe the actions to be more necessary than the words, and the first things to be considered. Corinna likewise, when Pindar was but a young man and made too daring a use of his eloquence, gave him this admonition, that he was no poet, for that he never composed any fables, which was the chiefest office of poetry; in regard that strange words, figures, metaphors, songs, and measures were invented to give a sweetness to things. Which admonition Pindar laying up in his mind, wrote a certain ode which thus begins:

Shall I Ismenus sing,

Or Melia, that from spindles all of gold

Her twisted yarn unwinds,

Or Cadmus, that most ancient king,

Or else the sacred race of Sparti bold,

Or Hercules, that far in strength transcends.

Which when he showed to Corinna, she with a smile replied: When you sow, you must scatter the seed with your hand, not empty the whole sack at once. And indeed we find that Pindar intermixes in his poetic numbers a collection of all sorts of fables. Now that poetry employs itself in mythology is agreed by Plato likewise. For a fable is the relation of a false story resembling truth, and therefore very remote from real actions; for relation is the image of action, as fable is the image of relation. And therefore they that feign actions fall as far behind historians as they that speak differ from those that act.

Notes on the current edition

Were the Athenians More Famous in War or in Wisdom?

1. Homer, Od. xix. 203; cf. Moralia 16 a.

2. Cf. the Scholia Cruquiana on Horace, Ars Poetica, 311.

3. Cf. Moralia, 769 c.

4. Pindar, Frag. 29, ed. Christ; ed. Sandys (L.C.L.) p. 512; cf. Lucian, Demosthenis Encomium, 19.

5. Edmonds’s version ( Lyra Graeca, iii. p. 7) of this famous passage is incomprehensible to me.

6. Phaedo, 61 b; cf. Moralia, 16 c.

Plutarch De gloria Atheniensium 4

Frank Cole Babbitt (Translator)

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