Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War, Theodor Braun (Translator), 6.77

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„Aber wir sind ja nicht hier, um die euch zur Genüge
bekannten Gewaltstreiche, die man der Politik der Athener
zum Vorwurf machen kann, mit euch durchzugehen, sondern
im Gegenteil, um unS selbst anzuklagen. Haben wir doch
vor Augen, wie sie die dortigen Griechen unterjocht haben,
weil sie sich ihrer Haut nicht wehrten, und wie sie auch uns
jetzt wieder mit solchen Spiegelfehctereien von Rückführung
stammverwandter Leontiner und Bundeshilfe für Egesta hinters
Licht führen wollen, und trotzdem können wir uns nicht ent
schließen, ihnen mit vereinten Kräften mutig entgegenzutreten,
um ihnen zu beweisen, daß sie es hier nicht mit Ioniern oder
solchem Jnselvolk und Hellespontern zu tun haben, die sich
heute die Herrschaft des Perserkönigs und morgen die eines
neuen Herrn gefallen lassen, sondern mit freien Doriern aus
dem freien Peloponnes, die sich hier in Sizilien eine Heimat
gegründet haben. Oder warten wir, bis sie eine Stadt nach
der anderen unterwerfen, während wir doch wissen, daß wir
nur auf diese Weise zu besiegen sind, und mitansehen, wie
sie es darauf anlegen, die einen durch Versprechungen uns
abwendig zu machen, die anderen durch die Hoffnung auf
ihren Beistand miteinander in Krieg verwickeln und jedem zu
seinem Schaden möglichst um den Bart gehen? Glauben
wir denn, wenn es erst dem fernen Landsmann an den Kragen
gegangen, würde die Reihe nicht auch an uns kommen, und
die, welche es vor unS betroffen, müßte man eben ihrem
Schicksal überlassen?

History of the Peloponnesian War. Thucydides. Theodor Braun (Translator). Leipzig. 1917.

Current edition First1KGreek

Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs (German) (Thucydides. Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs. Braun, Theodor, translator. Leipzig: Insel-Verlag, 1917.)

Editions (1)

Ἱστορίαι Perseus (Thucydides. Historiae, Vol 1-2. Jones, Henry Stuart, editor. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1910. (1942 printing).) — 6.77.1 focus

[1] ‘ἀλλ’ οὐ γὰρ δὴ τὴν τῶν Ἀθηναίων εὐκατηγόρητον οὖσαν πόλιν νῦν ἥκομεν ἀποφανοῦντες ἐν εἰδόσιν ὅσα ἀδικεῖ, πολὺ δὲ μᾶλλον ἡμᾶς αὐτοὺς αἰτιασόμενοι ὅτι ἔχοντες παραδείγματα τῶν τ’ ἐκεῖ Ἑλλήνων ὡς ἐδουλώθησαν οὐκ ἀμύνοντες σφίσιν αὐτοῖς, καὶ νῦν ἐφ’ ἡμᾶς ταὐτὰ παρόντα σοφίσματα, Λεοντίνων τε ξυγγενῶν κατοικίσεις καὶ Ἐγεσταίων ξυμμάχων ἐπικουρίας, οὐ ξυστραφέντες βουλόμεθα προθυμότερον δεῖξαι αὐτοῖς ὅτι οὐκ Ἴωνες τάδε εἰσὶν οὐδ’ Ἑλλησπόντιοι καὶ νησιῶται, οἳ δεσπότην ἢ Μῆδον ἢ ἕνα γέ τινα αἰεὶ μεταβάλλοντες δουλοῦνται, ἀλλὰ Δωριῆς ἐλεύθεροι ἀπ’ αὐτονόμου τῆς Πελοποννήσου τὴν Σικελίαν οἰκοῦντες.

[2] ἢ μένομεν ἕως ἂν ἕκαστοι κατὰ πόλεις ληφθῶμεν, εἰδότες ὅτι ταύτῃ μόνον ἁλωτοί ἐσμεν καὶ ὁρῶντες αὐτοὺς ἐπὶ τοῦτο τὸ εἶδος τρεπομένους ὥστε τοὺς μὲν λόγοις ἡμῶν διιστάναι, τοὺς δὲ ξυμμάχων ἐλπίδι ἐκπολεμοῦν πρὸς ἀλλήλους, τοῖς δὲ ὡς ἑκάστοις τι προσηνὲς λέγοντες δύνανται κακουργεῖν; καὶ οἰόμεθα τοῦ ἄπωθεν ξυνοίκου προαπολλυμένου οὐ καὶ ἐς αὐτόν τινα ἥξειν τὸ δεινόν, πρὸ δὲ αὐτοῦ μᾶλλον τὸν πάσχοντα καθ’ ἑαυτὸν δυστυχεῖν;

Translations (9)

The History of the Grecian War Perseus (Thucydides. The English works of Thomas Hobbes of Malmesbury. Hobbes, Thomas. translator. London: John Bohn, 1843.) — 6.77.1 focus

[1] "But in truth we come not to accuse the Athenian state, though it be obnoxious enough, before you that know sufficiently the injuries they have done, but far rather to accuse ourselves, who, though we have the examples before our eyes of the Grecians there brought into servitude for want of defending themselves, and though we see them now, with the same sophistry of replanting the Leontines and their kindred and aiding of their confederates the Egestaeans, prepare to do the like unto us, do not yet unite ourselves and with better courage make them to know that we be not Ionians nor Hellespontines nor islanders, that changing serve always the Mede or some other master, but that we are Dorians and freemen, come to dwell here in Sicily out of Peloponnesus, a free country.

[2] Shall we stand still till we be taken city after city when we know that that only way we are conquerable; and when we find them wholly bent to this, that by drawing some from our alliance with their words, and causing some to wear each other out with war upon hope of their confederacy, and winning others by other fit language, they may have the power to do us hurt? But we think, though one of the same island perish, yet if he dwell far off, the danger will not come to us; and before it arrive, we count unhappy only him that suffereth before us.

History of the Peloponnesian War Perseus (Thucydides. History of the Peloponnesian War. Crawley, Richard, translator. London and Toronto: J. M. Dent and Sons Ltd.; New York: E. P. Dutton and Co., 1914.) — 6.77.1 focus

[1] But we are not now come to declare to an audience familiar with them the misdeeds of a state so open to accusation as is the Athenian, but much rather to blame ourselves, who, with the warnings we possess in the Hellenes in those parts that have been enslaved through not supporting each other, and seeing the same sophisms being now tried upon ourselves—such as restorations of Leontine kinsfolk and support of Egestaean allies—do not stand together and resolutely show them that here are no Ionians, or Hellespontines, or islanders, who change continually, but always serve a master, sometimes the Mede and sometimes some other, but free Dorians from independent Peloponnese , dwelling in Sicily .

[2] Or, are we waiting until we be taken in detail, one city after another; knowing as we do that in no other way can we be conquered, and seeing that they turn to this plan, so as to divide some of us by words, to draw some by the bait of an alliance into open war with each other, and to ruin others by such flattery as different circumstances may render acceptable? And do we fancy when destruction first overtakes a distant fellow-countryman that the danger will not come to each of us also, or that he who suffers before us will suffer in himself alone?

Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs First1KGreek (Thucydides. Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs. Wahrmund, Adolf, translator. Stuttgart: Krais and Hoffmann, 1864.) — 6.77 focus

„Aber wir sind ja nicht hieher-gekommen, um euch alle
Gewaltthaten des Athenischen Staates zu enthüllen, welcher der
Anklage so reichen Stoff bietet — denn ihr kennt,sie selber — vielmehr
um uns selbst anzuklagen, die wir. trotz.der warnenden Beispiele,
welche die Knechtung der dortigen Hellenen-uns bietet,- die sich zur
eigenen Vertheidigung nicht entschließen konnten, —- die wir trotz ¹
Anwendung eben derselben verschmitzten Scheingründe —
Zurückführung der stammverwandten Leontiner nnd Unterstützung der
bundesgenösfischen Egestaner — doch zu träge find, unS zu vereinigen und
ihnen zu zeigen, daß es dahier keine Joner gibt und keine
Hellespontier oder Inselbewohner, die an's Sklavenjoch gewohnt find, ob sie
nun den Meder zum Herrn haben, oder ihn mit irgend einem andern
vertauschen, sondern daß wir freie Dorer find, die vom freien
Peloponnes aus sich in Sieilien Wohnfitze begründet haben. Oder wollen
wir vielleicht warten, bis wir Alle, eine Stadt nach der andern,
erobert find, da wir doch wissen, daß wir nur auf diese Weise besiegbar
sind, und da wir sehen, daß sie selbst sich eben dieser Politik bedienen)
die Einen von uns durch Vorspiegelungen mit den Uebrigen
verfeinden, Andere wieder durch das Versprechen ihrer Bundesgenossenschaft
dazu antreiben, sich gegenseitig zu bekriegen, und wie sie sonst eben
Unheil ausstreuen können, indem sie Jedem etwas Verlockendes zu
sagen wissen. Sollen wir glauben, daß, wenn der entferntere
Nachbar vor uns zu Grunde gerichtet wird, die Gefahr nicht auch uns
selbst über den Hals kommen werde, sondern uns einstweilen
einbilden , daß der vor uns Leidende nur eben für sich das Unglück habe?"

Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponèse First1KGreek (Thucydides. Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése, Vol. 1-2. Zévort, Marie Charles, translator. Paris: Charpentier, 1852.) — 6.77 focus

LXXVII. « Mais il est par trop facile d’accuser les Athéniens; aussi ne venons-nous pas vous démontrer leurs injustices, vous les connaissez; nous venons plutôt nous accuser nous-mêmes¹ de ce que, quand nous avons sous les yeux l’exemple des Grecs du continent, asservis pour ne s’être pas défendus entre eux; quand les Athéniens invoquent maintenant avec nous les mêmes sophismes, — le rétablissement des Léontins, à titre de parenté, la défense des Égestains leurs alliés, — nous ne noue hâtons pas de nous tourner tous contre eux avec une égale ardeur, et de leur montrer qu’il ne s’agit plus ici de ces Ioniens, de ces Hellespontiens et de ces insulaires qui, toujours changeant de maître, quel qu’il soit, Mède ou autre, n’en restent pas moins esclaves; mais de Doriens, d’hommes libres, venus en Sicile d’un pays indépendant, fils du Péloponnèse. Attendrons-nous donc que nous soyons tous pris tour à tour, ville à ville, quand nous savous que nous ne sommes vulnérables que de cette façon; quand nous voyons que c’est précisément là le système qu’adoptent les Athéniens, semant ici par leurs discours des germes de division parmi nous, ailleurs nous mettant réciproquement aux mains par l’espoir de leur alliance; partout, enfin, s’efforçant de nous nuire par tous les moyens en leur pouvoir, tout en donnant à chacun de belles paroles. Croyons-nous, enfin, que dans un même pays une ville, même éloignée, puisse succomber, sans que nous ressentions, nous aussi, quelque contre-coup de ses maux, sans que le malheur s’étende au delà des premières victimes?

Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése First1KGreek (Thucydides. Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése. Bétant, Élie-Ami, translator. Paris: Librairie de L. Hachette, 1863.) — 6.77 focus

« Au reste, ce serait une tâche par trop facile denumerer, devant un auditoire qui les connaît, toutes les injustices des Athéniens. Nous venons plutôt nous accuser nous-mêmes, nous qui, ayant l’exemple des Grecs d’Asie asservis poui n’avoir pas concerté leur défense, et voyant évoquer contre nous les mêmes fantômes de restauration des Léontins à titre de parents, de protection des Ëgestains à titre d’alliés, ne savons pas former le faisceau et leur montrer par notre attitude courageuse qu’ils n’ont pas affaire ici à des Ioniens, à des Hel-lespontiens ou à des insulaires, habitués à obéir à tous les maîtres, Mèdes ou autres, mais à des Doriens, libres et indépendants comme le Péloponèse, leur berceau. Ou bien attendrons-nous d’être pris en détail, ville après ville? quand nous voyons les Athéniens, fidèles à ce système, le seul qui nous soit redoutable, désunir les uns par leurs discours, mettre aux prises les autres par l’appât de leur alliance, enfin s’efforcer de nous faire tout le mal possible, en séduisant chacun de nous • par un langage insidieux ? Et nous pourrions nous bercer de l’espoir que, la ruine de notre voisin une fois consommée, le danger ne s'étendrait pas· jusqu’à nous, et que celui qui aura souffert le premier sera le seul frappé ?

History of the Peloponnesian War First1KGreek (Thucydides, Vol. 1-4. Smith, Charles Foster, translator. London and Cambridge, MA: Heinemann and Harvard University Press, 1919-1923.) — 6.77.1 focus

[1] "But we are not come now, easy though it be to denounce the Athenian state, to declare before those who know already how many are its misdeeds; but much more to blame ourselves, because, though we have warning examples in the way that the Hellenes over there have been enslaved because they would not defend one another, and though the same sophisms are now practised upon us—restorings of Leontine kinsmen and succourings of Egestaean allies!—we are unwilling to combine together and with more spirit show them that here are not Ionians nor yet Hellespontines and islanders, who are always taking some new master, Persian or whoever it may be, and continue in a state of slavery, but Dorians, free men sprung from independent Peloponnesus, and now dwelling in Sicily.

[2] Or are we waiting until we shall be taken one at a time, city by city, when we know that in this way only can we be conquered, and when we see them resorting to this policy, endeavouring to cause division among some of us by means of cunning words, to set others at war one with another by the hope of obtaining allies, and to ruin others in whatever way they can by saying something alluring to each? And do we think that, when a distant compatriot perishes before us, the same danger will not come also to ourselves, but rather that whoever before us meets with disaster merely incurs misfortune by himself alone?

History of the Peloponnesian War First1KGreek (Thucydides. The history of the Peloponnesian War, Volume 1-2. Dale, Henry, translator. London: Heinemann and Henry G. Bohn, 1851-1852.) — 6.77.1 focus

[1] "But, open as the Athenian state is to accusation, we are not come at the present time to prove before those who know this already, in how many respects it is committing injustice; but much rather to censure ourselves, because, with the warnings given us by the Greeks in those quarters, how they were enslaved through not assisting one another, and with the same sophisms being now practised on ourselves— their re-instatements of their Leontine kinsmen, and succours to their Segestan allies—we will not unite together, and show them that the people here are no Ionians, or Hellespontines and islanders, who are always passing to a new master, either the Mede or some one else, and still kept in slavery, but free Dorians from the independent Peloponnese now living in Sicily.

[2] Or do we wait till we have separately been subdued, city by city? knowing, as we do, that in this way only are we vincible; and seeing them having recourse to this method, so as to set some of us at variance by words; to set others at war through hope of finding allies; and to injure others by saying something flattering to them, as they severally can And do we then think, that if our distant fellow countryman is destroyed before us, the danger will not come to each of ourselves also, but that he who suffers before us keeps his misfortune to himself?

Historia Belli Peloponnesiaci First1KGreek (Historia Belli Peloponnesiaci. Haase, Friedrich, translator. Paris: Firmin Didot, 1869.) — 6.77.1 focus

[1] « Quanquam non propterea nunc venimus, ut quanta criminum copia suppetat adversus Atheniensium civitatem demonstremus, inter scientes, quot sint ejus fiiqu-rim, sed multo magis^ut nosmet ipsos accusemus, quod quum habeamus ob oculos exempla Graecorum, qui illic sunt, quomodo in servitutem ab »3 redacti sint, dum sibi ipsis opem non ferunt, et nunc eadem ista fraudulenta commenta nobis admota, Leontinorum cognatorum in suam civitatem restitutiones, et Egestaeorum sociorum suppetias, tamen nolumus conspirantes alacriter iis ostendere, non. esso hic Iones neque Hellespontios insulanosque, qui dominum aut Medum aut aliquem unum semper commutantes' serviunt, sed Dorienses, qui liberi ex libera Peloponneso profecti Siciliam incolunt.

[2] An exspectemus, donec oppi-datim singuli capti simus, quum sciamus, nos non nisi hac una ratione capi posse, et animadvertamus eoe ad hanc artem animos appellere, ut alios quidem de nobis oratione dissocient, alios spe societatis ad mutuum bellum concitent, atiia denique, prout quibusque possunt aliquid blandi dicentes, damnom faciant? et existimamus, st ejusdem terra incola, qui remotior est, prius pereat, calamitatem ad quemlibet alium de nobis non perventuram, sed potius qui ante se in calamitatem incidat, eum solum infelicem fore?

La storia di Tucidide First1KGreek (Thucydides. Della storia di Tucidide volgarizzata libri otto. Anonymous translator. Florence: Tipografia Galileiana, 1835.) — 6.77 focus

« Nondimeno per agevole che sia accusare la Repubblica d’Atene, noi non venimmo qua per dichiarare le ingiustizie di lei a voi che le sapete; ma più presto per incolpare noi stessi che avendo ad esempio i Greci di là fatti schiavi, per aver trascurato la propria difesa, ed ora questi sofismi che ci vengono addotti, cioè il rimpatriamento de’ Leontini come consanguinei, il soccorso agliEgestei come alleati, non sappiamo riunirci tutti amostrar loro vigorosamente che qui non sono nè Ionii, nè Ellespontii, nè isolani, i quali col mutar sempre padrone, sia il Medo , sia qualunqu’altro, rimangono servi ; ma Doriesi, e liberi, e venuti ad abitar la Sicilia dal Peloponneso anch’esso indipendente. O tranquilliamo forse finché ci vediamo oppressi tutti città per città? Noi che sappiamo esser questa Tunica via ad esser vinti, noi che veggiamo gli Ateniesi voltarsi appunto a questa, parte per dividerci colle ciarle loro, parte per metterci in guerra l’un l’altro colla speranza d’averci alleati, parte per farci quel male che possono col dar pasto a ciascuno? O forse pensiamo che se prima rovini un nostro paesano di lungi, non abbia a piombar la sciagura anche sul capo d’ognun di noi, ma che piuttosto debba essere infelice quello solo che prima di noi sia oppresso ?

Commentary

Commentary on Thucydides: Book 6 (Thucydides, Book VI. Marchant, Edgar C., editor. London: Macmillan and Company, 1909.) focus

ἔχοντες παραδείγματα —the ‘examples’ are of two kinds: there aie (1) the experience of the subjects of Athens; (2) the repetition of the deception. Both of these demonstrate the folly of not combining. Hence τῶν τε ἐκεῖ Ἑ. is answered by καὶ . . σοφίσματα, in apposition to παραδείγματα. Then κατοικίσεις and ἐπικουρίας are the explanation of σοφίσματα— ‘tricks such as the restoration of L.,’ etc.

ξυστραφέντες —‘combining’; cf. Demosth. 9, 60 συστραφἐντες ἄνθρωποι πολλοί.

οὐκ Ἴωνες τάδε —‘here are no Iouians.’ τάδε ‘usitatum ubi dicere volunt: haec quae hic vides circum te jacentia’ (Goller). είσίν is constructed to suit the complement.

Ἴωνες . . Ἑλλησπόντιοι . . νησιῶται —three of the districts into which the citics of the Athenian Empire were grouped. Cf. I. 89 οἱ Ἀθηναῖοι καὶ οἱ ἀπὸ Ἰωνίας καὶ Ἑλλης πόντου ξύμμαχοι. For the νησιῶται see c. 76, 3.

αἰεὶ μεταβάλλοντες —‘with occasional changes.’ The middle is usual. So Thuc. has μεταχειρίζειν for μεταχειρίζεσθαι, πειρᾶν = πειρᾶσθαι, προιέναι = προίεσθαι.

δουλοῦνται —‘are dependent upon.’

Δωριῆς —they affected to despise the Ionians.

Σικελίαν —Freeman points out that Sicily is here dealt with as ἤπειρος (cf. on c. 1, 2), and is contrasted with νησιῶται.

ἢ μένομεν —‘what, are we waiting?’ So in colloquial Latin quid ago? is more lively than quid agam?

εἶδος —the ‘method’ that is explained in what follows.

ἡμῶν —depends on τοὺς μέν.

ξυμμάχων ἐλπίδι —‘hy the hope of obtaining allies’— i.e. alliance with the Athenians is the temptation offered.

ἐκπολεμοῦν πρὸς ἀλλήλους —cf. c. 91, 6 τὰ ἐνθάδε χρὴ . . ἐκπολεμοῦν ‘stir up to war.’

τοῖς δὲ κτλ —this depends on λέγοντες, being attracted to the dat. by ἑκάστοις. Hence the sentence = τοῖς δὲ ὡς ἑκάστοις . . λέγοντες δύνανται ( κακουργεῖν ), κακουργεῖν ( αὐτούς), ‘and to injure others in any way they can while using smooth words suited to the case.’ Hermocrates detects three designs on the part of the A.: (1) to sow dissension by reviving the differences that had been suppressed in the treaty of Gela 424 B.C.; (2) to invite the cities to join Athens against the Dorian states; (3) most insidious of all, to speak fair and play foul. Two examples of the last had occurred already: ( a) the entrance into Catana, e. 51; ( b) the false message from Catana to Syracnse, c. 64. For

προσηνές see Index s. v.

καὶοἰόμεθα κτλ —‘and while our countryman at a distance is perishing do we imagine that the danger will not extend to every one of us?’ The distant countryman is Syracuse; the subject of οἰόμεθα still the Siceliots at large (§ 1 ἡμᾶς αὐτούς). προαπολλυμένου is temporal, coincident in time with οἰόμεθα.

οὐ καὶ ἐς αὐτόν τινα —this is the inclusive use of τις often found close to a plur., as in VII. 39 ὅσα τις ἔχει, πάντας ἀναγκάσαι πωλεῖν. For ἥκειν ἐς ‘penetrate to’ cf. II. 48 καὶ ἐς τὴν ἄνω πόλιν ἀφίκετο ( ἡ νόσος), and for the opinion, I. 120 κἂν μέχρι σφῶν τὸ δεινὸν προελθεῖν.

πρὸ δὲ αὐτοῦ κτλ —this stands for μᾶλλον δὲ τὸν πρὸ αὐτοῦ πάσχοντα καθ) αὑτὸν δ., ‘but rather that he who suffers before one confines the trouble to himself,’ i.e. isolates it, prevents it from spreading. For the order, which is due to the emphasis laid on πρὸ αὐτοῦ, cf. II. 7 ἐξ Ἰταλίας τοῖς ἑλομἐνοις for τοῖς ἐξ Ἰ. ἑ.

Thucydides History of the Peloponnesian War 6.77

Theodor Braun (Translator)

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