Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War, Theodor Braun (Translator), 3.9

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„Wie man in Griechenland über die Dinge denkt, Lake
dämonier und Bundesgenossen, wissen wir wohl. Wer im
Kriege mit seinem bisherigen Bundesgenossen bricht und
von ihm abfällt, den nimmt man eben an, weil er einem
nützt, und läßt ihn sich gefallen, hält ihn aber im Grunde
doch für einen Verräter und für minder wert als die alten
Freunde. Und das nicht mit Unrecht, sofern es sich bei dem
Bruch um zwei ehrlich befreundete, gleichmächtige und schlag
fertige Staaten handelt und kein stichhaltiger Grund zum
Abfall vorhanden ist. So aber lag die Sache zwischen uns
und den Athenern nicht, und deshalb wird man uns es nicht
verargen können, wenn wir, obgleich sie uns im Frieden gut
behandelt haben, jetzt im Kriege von ihnen abfallen.

History of the Peloponnesian War. Thucydides. Theodor Braun (Translator). Leipzig. 1917.

Current edition First1KGreek

Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs (German) (Thucydides. Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs. Braun, Theodor, translator. Leipzig: Insel-Verlag, 1917.)

Editions (1)

Ἱστορίαι Perseus (Thucydides. Historiae, Vol 1-2. Jones, Henry Stuart, editor. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1910. (1942 printing).) — 3.9.1 focus

[1] ‘τὸ μὲν καθεστὸς τοῖς Ἕλλησι νόμιμον, ὦ Λακεδαιμόνιοι καὶ ξύμμαχοι, ἴσμεν· τοὺς γὰρ ἀφισταμένους ἐν τοῖς πολέμοις καὶ ξυμμαχίαν τὴν πρὶν ἀπολείποντας οἱ δεξάμενοι, καθ’ ὅσον μὲν ὠφελοῦνται, ἐν ἡδονῇ ἔχουσι, νομίζοντες δὲ εἶναι προδότας τῶν πρὸ τοῦ φίλων χείρους ἡγοῦνται.

[2] καὶ οὐκ ἄδικος αὕτη ἡ ἀξίωσίς ἐστιν, εἰ τύχοιεν πρὸς ἀλλήλους οἵ τε ἀφιστάμενοι καὶ ἀφ’ ὧν διακρίνοιντο ἴσοι μὲν τῇ γνώμῃ ὄντες καὶ εὐνοίᾳ, ἀντίπαλοι δὲ τῇ παρασκευῇ καὶ δυνάμει, πρόφασίς τε ἐπιεικὴς μηδεμία ὑπάρχοι τῆς ἀποστάσεως· ὃ ἡμῖν καὶ Ἀθηναίοις οὐκ ἦν.

[3] μηδέ τῳ χείρους δόξωμεν εἶναι εἰ ἐν τῇ εἰρήνῃ τιμώμενοι ὑπ’ αὐτῶν ἐν τοῖς δεινοῖς ἀφιστάμεθα.

Translations (10)

The History of the Grecian War Perseus (Thucydides. The English works of Thomas Hobbes of Malmesbury. Hobbes, Thomas. translator. London: John Bohn, 1843.) — 3.9.1 focus

[1] "Men of Lacedaemon and confederates, we know the received custom of the Grecians. For they that take into league such as revolt in the wars and relinquish a former league, though they like them as long as they have profit by them, yet accounting them but traitors to their former friends, they esteem the worse of them in their judgment.

[2] And to say the truth, this judgment is not without good reason when they that revolt and they from whom the revolt is made are mutually like minded and affected, and equal in provision and strength, and no just cause of their revolt given. But now between us and the Athenians it is not so.

[3] Nor let any man think the worse of us for that having been honoured by them in time of peace, we have now revolted in time of danger.

History of the Peloponnesian War Perseus (Thucydides. History of the Peloponnesian War. Crawley, Richard, translator. London and Toronto: J. M. Dent and Sons Ltd.; New York: E. P. Dutton and Co., 1914.) — 3.9.1 focus

[1] ‘Lacedaemonians and allies, the rule established among the Hellenes is not unknown to us. Those who revolt in war and forsake their former confederacy are favorably regarded by those who receive them, in so far as they are of use to them, but otherwise are thought less well of, through being considered traitors to their former friends.

[2] Nor is this an unfair way of judging, where the rebels and the power from whom they secede are at one in policy and sympathy, and a match for each other in resources and power, and where no reasonable ground exists for the rebellion. But with us and the Athenians this was not the case;

[3] and no one need think the worse of us for revolting from them in danger, after having been honored by them in time of peace.

Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs First1KGreek (Thucydides. Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs. Wahrmund, Adolf, translator. Stuttgart: Krais and Hoffmann, 1864.) — 3.9 focus

„Was unter den Hellenen feststehender Grundsatz ist, ihr
Lakedämonischen Männer und ihr Bundesgenossen, das wissen wir
wohl. Wer in Kriegszeiten abfällt und seine frühere
Bnndesgenossenschaft fahren läßt, den nimmt man zwar auf, aber man schätzt ihn nur
insofern, als er zu nützen vermag, hält ihn für einen Verräther und
setzt ihn denen nach, die bereits vordem Freunde waren. Dieser
Grundsatz ist in der That nicht unrichtig, sofern nur die Abfallenden
und die, welchen sie absagen, in Gesinnung und Neigung wie in Rüstung
und Kriegsmacht einander gleichstanden, und kein billiger Grund zum
Absalle vorhanden ist. Zwischen uns aber und den Athenern stehen die
Dinge nicht so, und wir werden deßhalb Niemanden mit Recht
schlechter scheinen, wenn wir, obgleich im Frieden von ihnen geehrt ^), zur
Zeit der Gefahr uns von ihnen lossagen."

Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponèse First1KGreek (Thucydides. Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése, Vol. 1-2. Zévort, Marie Charles, translator. Paris: Charpentier, 1852.) — 3.9 focus

IX. « Lacédémoniens et alliés, les usages des Grecs nous sont connus : lorsqu’un peuple fait défect ion pendant la guerre et abandonne ses anciens alliés, ceux qui l’accueillent le traitent avec honneur, en raison de l’utilité qu’ils en retirent ; mais on ne l’en regarde pas moins comme traître à ses premiers amis, et on a peu d’estime pour lui¹. Cette manière de voir ne serait pas fausse, si, entre les révoltés et ceux dont ils se séparent, il y avait réciprocité de sentiments et de bienveillance, égalité de ressources et de puissance ; s’il n’existait aucun motif plausible de défection. Mais telle n’est pas notre situation à l’égard des Athéniens ; il n’y a donc pas lieu de nous mépriser si, après avoir été traités honorablement par eux pendant la paix, nous les abandonnons au moment du danger.

Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése First1KGreek (Thucydides. Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése. Bétant, Élie-Ami, translator. Paris: Librairie de L. Hachette, 1863.) — 3.9 focus

« Lacédémoniens et alliés, le principe établi chez les Grecs nous est connu. Le peuple qui, pendant la guerre, se détache d’anciens alliés, est choyé par ceux qui ont intérêt à TaccueiUir ; mais il ne doit pas s’attendre à leur estime, parce qu’il passe pour traître envers ses précédents amis. Cette opinion serait fondée si, entre les transfuges et ceux dont ils se séparent, il y avait réciprocité de sentiments et d’affection, équilibre de ressources et de forces, enfin absence de tout motif valable de rupture ; mais, entre les Athéniens et nous, rien de pareil. Il n’est donc pas étrange que, ménagés par eux pendant la paix, nous les abandonnions pendant la guerre.

History of the Peloponnesian War First1KGreek (Thucydides, Vol. 1-4. Smith, Charles Foster, translator. London and Cambridge, MA: Heinemann and Harvard University Press, 1919-1923.) — 3.9.1 focus

[1] "We are not unaware, men of Lacedaemon and members of the alliance, of the traditional feeling of the Hellenes towards men who revolt in time of war and abandon their former alliance: those who accept them as allies are indeed pleased with them in so far as they derive advantage, but they regard them as traitors to their former friends and therefore think the worse of them.

[2] And this estimate is not unjust, provided that those who revolt and those from whom they secede held the same political views and were actuated by the same feeling of good will toward one another, and were evenly matched in preparation for war and in power, and provided also that there were no reasonable excuse for their revolt. But these conditions did not obtain between us and the Athenians;

[3] therefore, let no one think the worse of us on the ground that we were honoured by them in time of peace and now revolt from them in time of danger.

History of the Peloponnesian War First1KGreek (Thucydides. The history of the Peloponnesian War, Volume 1-2. Dale, Henry, translator. London: Heinemann and Henry G. Bohn, 1851-1852.) — 3.9.1 focus

[1] "With the settled principle of the Greeks with regard to a case like ours], Lacedaemonians and allies, we are well acquainted; for when men revolt in war, and leave their former confederacy, those who receive them are pleased with them so far as they derive benefit from them; but inasmuch as they consider them traitors to their former friends, they have a meaner opinion of them.

[2] And this is no unfair estimate of their conduct, supposing that both those who revolt, and those from whom they separate, agreed in their views and in kindly feeling, and were equally matched in resources and power, and no reasonable ground for the revolt previously existed. But this was not the case with us and the Athenians;

[3] nor ought we to be worse thought of by any one for revolting from them in the time of their peril, when we were honoured by them in time of peace.

Historia Belli Peloponnesiaci First1KGreek (Historia Belli Peloponnesiaci. Haase, Friedrich, translator. Paris: Firmin Didot, 1869.) — 3.9.1 focus

[1] «Institutum, quod apud Graecos moribus est receptum , viri Lacedaemonii sociique, non ignoramus; qui enim recipiunt illos, qui in bellis deficiunt, et priorem societatem relinquunt, quatenus quidem aliquam utilitatem ex illis percipiunt, caros.habent, sed quum eos superiorum amicorum proditores esse existiment, minus probos esse ducunt.

[2] Atque haec aestimatio non est iniqua, si et illi, qiu deficiunt, et illi, a quibus defectionem faciunt, pares inter se sint voluntate benevolentiaque et aequales apparatu ac viribus, nec ulla justa defectionis causa subsit; quod in nobis et Atheniensibus non sic erat.

[3] Neve cuiquam ideo minus probi esse videamur, quod cum pacis tempore ab ipsis honorifice tractaremur, in periculis deficimus.

Vier Staatsreden aus Thucydides First1KGreek (Thucydides. Vier Staatsreden aus Thucydides. Gürsching, Heinrich, translator. Augsburg: Wirth, 1856.) — 2.35.1 focus

[1] Wenn es bisher bei den Rednern an dieser Stätte fast allgemeiner Brauch geworden, den Mann zu rühmen, der mit der Bestattung diese Rede verband, weil an dem Grabe gefallener Krieger ein ehrendes Wort sich zieme, so würde ich es für hinreichend gehalten haben, dass man Helden der That mit einer festlichen Handlung ehre, — wie das denn der Staat durch die Bestattung gethan hat, deren Zeugen ihr so eben gewesen — und würde die Verherrlichung so vieler Männer nicht einem Einzelnen und der zufälligen Wirkung seines Vortrags anheimgegeben haben.

La storia di Tucidide First1KGreek (Thucydides. Della storia di Tucidide volgarizzata libri otto. Anonymous translator. Florence: Tipografia Galileiana, 1835.) — 3.9 focus

« Prestantissimi Spartani ed alleati, ci è al tutto noia la consuetudine fermata tra i Greci, che coloro i quali raccettano i popoli, che all’ occasione di guerra ribellatisi ed abbandonano la lega di prima , li hanno a grado in quanto che ne risentono utilità ; ma reputandoli traditori dei primieri amici, li tengono anche per peggiori. Nè tale estimazione è ingiusta, posto che i ribellanti e quei da’ quali uno si distacca sieno eguali tra loro nelle intenzioni e nella benevolenza, e si contrabbilancino gli apparecchi e le forze di entrambi, nè vi sia alcuna onesta cagione di ribellare : ciò che non è da dire di noi e degli Ateniesi. Nè sia vero che si abbia peggior concetto di noi, se onorati da essi in pace, ce ne alieniamo nei pericoli.

Commentary

Commentary on Thucydides: Book 3 (Thucydides, Book III. Marchant, Edgar C., editor. London: Macmillan and Company, 1909.) focus

καθεστός —MS. evidence and analogy favour the form in ‐ός for the neut.; but etymology ( ‐άος) and the ancient grammarians are for ‐ώς.

τοὺς γάρ —cf. I. 40 τὸν νόμον μὴ καθιστάναι ὤστε τοὺς ἑτέρων ἀφισταμένους δέχεσθαι.

ἐν ἡδονῇ ἔχουσι —so ἐν αἰτίᾳ, ἐν ὀργῇ, ἐν ὀρρωδίᾳ etc., cf. c. 34 , 3 and ἐν ἡδονῇ εἶναι I. 99.

χείρους —think worse of them for being traitors.

οὐκ ἄδικος . . ἐστιν, εἰ τύχοιεν —like I. 120 ἀνδρῶν σωφρόνων ἐστίν, εἰ μὴ ἀδικοῖντο, ἡσυχάζειν. Here οὐκ ἄ. . . . ἐστιν= δίκαιόν ἐστι χείρους ἡγεῖσθαι, and in such cases (see Goodwin, MT. § 555) the opt. is not seldom found. The idiom should certainly not be regarded as abnormal. Cf. e.g. Plato, Gorg, 482 B ἔγωγε οἶμαι κρεῖττον εἶναι . . διαφωνεῖν χορὸν ᾧ χορηγοίην. Bayfield on Antig. 666 collects passages from Soph. Presently

διακρίνοιντο is by assimilation to τύχοιεν.

γνώμῃ —‘feeling,’ ‘sentiment’;

εὐνοίᾳ ‘loyalty’ to each other. These words, so frequent in Thuc. and orators, have various shades of meaning; and of γνώμη it would be rash to say that we can always be sure of its precise significance— Classen has discussed γνώμη at length in his Intr.—but here the parallel παρασκευὴ καὶ δύναμις show that the two are closely similar in sense ( εὔνοια is the intellectual aspect of γνώμη); and c. 10 ἐν τῷ διαλάσσοντι τῆς γνώμης καὶ αἱ διαφοραὶ τῶν ἔργων, where the meaning of γνώμη is fixed by μετ’ ἀρετῆς δοκούσης and ὁμοιό τροποι, bears this out. ( εὔνοια of course implies ‘between equals’ here, not loyalty to a superior.) Cf. also c. 12, 1.

μηδέ τῳ —here and again at c. 67, 2 there should undoubtedly be only a comma before μηδέ. Thuc. never uses οὐδέ, μηδέ=‘and not,’ unless a neg. clause precedes; and it is quite plain from what precedes— οὐκ ἄδικος αὔτη ἡ ἀξίωσις, viz. χείρους ἡγεῖσθαι, εἰ τύχοιεν—that ὃ . . οὐκ ἦν and μηδέ τῳ χείρους δόξωμεν εἶναι adhere closely together.

ἐν τοῖς δεινοῖς —for Athens; often used of the troubles of war.

Thucydides History of the Peloponnesian War 3.9

Theodor Braun (Translator)

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