Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War, Adolf Wahrmund (Translator), 6.12

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„Bedenken müßt ihr auch, daß wir erst seit Kurzem von
einer großen Pest und dem Kriege uns ein wenig erholt und an Geld
und Menschenzahl wieder zugenommen haben. Diesen Zuwachs an ¹
Mitteln sollten wir aber gerechterweise nur zu unserm eignen Besten ²
und hier im Lande selbst aufwenden und nicht für diese vertriebenen
Leute 32), die uns um Hülse bitten, denen es Nutzen bringt,
zuversichtlich zu lügen, auch auf die Gefahr des Andern hin, und die ihrerseits
nur mit Worten aufwarten können und schließlich im Fall des
Gelingens sich nicht dankbar erweisen, im Fall des Scheiterns aber auch
ihre Freunde mit in's Verderben ziehen werden.

„Wenn aber Einer aus eurer Mitte, der zu seiner großen Freude
zum Feldherrn gewählt worden ist, Euch zu dem Seezug räth, —
Einer, der nur auf seinen eigenen Vortheil schaut und übrigens zum
Feldherrn auch noch zu jung ist^), — Einer, der sich gern seiner
schönen Pferde wegen bewundern läßt und wegen der Kostspieligkeit
derselben aus der Feldherrnstelle seinen Profit herausshclagen will,
so gestattet doch dem nicht, daß er auf die Gefahr des
Staatsbankerots mit seiner eigenen Person prachere, und denkt, daß
dergleichen Menschen den Staat bestehlen und das Eigene durchbringen.
Bedenkt, daß es sich um die wichtigsten Dinge handelt, die nicht
danach find, daß junge Leute ihren unreifen Witz daran üben und sie
mir Nichts dir Nichts in die Hand nehmen."

History of the Peloponnesian War. Thucydides. Adolf Wahrmund (Translator). Stuttgart. 1864.

Current edition First1KGreek

Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs (German) (Thucydides. Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs. Wahrmund, Adolf, translator. Stuttgart: Krais and Hoffmann, 1864.)

Editions (1)

Ἱστορίαι Perseus (Thucydides. Historiae, Vol 1-2. Jones, Henry Stuart, editor. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1910. (1942 printing).) — 6.12.1 focus

[1] ‘καὶ μεμνῆσθαι χρὴ ἡμᾶς ὅτι νεωστὶ ἀπὸ νόσου μεγάλης καὶ πολέμου βραχύ τι λελωφήκαμεν, ὥστε καὶ χρήμασι καὶ τοῖς σώμασιν ηὐξῆσθαι· καὶ ταῦτα ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν δίκαιον ἐνθάδε εἶναι ἀναλοῦν, καὶ μὴ ὑπὲρ ἀνδρῶν φυγάδων τῶνδε ἐπικουρίας δεομένων, οἷς τό τε ψεύσασθαι καλῶς χρήσιμον καὶ τῷ τοῦ πέλας κινδύνῳ, αὐτοὺς λόγους μόνον παρασχομένους, ἢ κατορθώσαντας χάριν μὴ ἀξίαν εἰδέναι ἢ πταίσαντάς που τοὺς φίλους ξυναπολέσαι.

[2] εἴ τέ τις ἄρχειν ἄσμενος αἱρεθεὶς παραινεῖ ὑμῖν ἐκπλεῖν, τὸ ἑαυτοῦ μόνον σκοπῶν, ἄλλως τε καὶ νεώτερος ὢν ἔτι ἐς τὸ ἄρχειν, ὅπως θαυμασθῇ μὲν ἀπὸ τῆς ἱπποτροφίας, διὰ δὲ πολυτέλειαν καὶ ὠφεληθῇ τι ἐκ τῆς ἀρχῆς, μηδὲ τούτῳ ἐμπαράσχητε τῷ τῆς πόλεως κινδύνῳ ἰδίᾳ ἐλλαμπρύνεσθαι, νομίσατε δὲ τοὺς τοιούτους τὰ μὲν δημόσια ἀδικεῖν, τὰ δὲ ἴδια ἀναλοῦν, καὶ τὸ πρᾶγμα μέγα εἶναι καὶ μὴ οἷον νεωτέρῳ βουλεύσασθαί τε καὶ ὀξέως μεταχειρίσαι.

Translations (9)

The History of the Grecian War Perseus (Thucydides. The English works of Thomas Hobbes of Malmesbury. Hobbes, Thomas. translator. London: John Bohn, 1843.) — 6.12.1 focus

[1] "We must remember also that we have had now some short recreation from a late great plague and great war, and thereby are improved both in men and money, which it is most meet that we should spend here upon ourselves and not upon those outlaws which seek for aid, seeing it maketh for them to tell us a specious lie; who, contributing only words whilst their friends bear all the danger, if they speed well, shall be disobliged of thanks, if ill, undo their friends for company.

[2] Now if there be any man here that for ends of his own, as being glad to be general, especially being yet too young to have charge in chief, shall advise the expedition to the end he may have admiration for his expense upon horses and help from his place to defray that expense, suffer him not to purchase his private honour and splendour with the danger of the public fortune. Believe rather that such men, though they rob the public, do nevertheless consume also their private wealth. Besides, the matter itself is full of great difficulties, such as it is not fit for a young man to consult of, much less hastily to take in hand.

History of the Peloponnesian War Perseus (Thucydides. History of the Peloponnesian War. Crawley, Richard, translator. London and Toronto: J. M. Dent and Sons Ltd.; New York: E. P. Dutton and Co., 1914.) — 6.12.1 focus

[1] We should also remember that we are but now enjoying some respite from a great pestilence and from war, to the no small benefit of our estates and persons, and that it is right to employ these at home on our own behalf, instead of using them on behalf of these exiles whose interest it is to lie as fairly as they can, who do nothing but talk themselves and leave the danger to others, and who if they succeed will show no proper gratitude, and if they fail will drag down their friends with them.

[2] And if there be any man here, overjoyed at being chosen to command, who urges you to make the expedition, merely for ends of his own—especially if he be still too young to command—who seeks to be admired for his stud of horses, but on account of its heavy expenses hopes for some profit from his appointment, do not allow such an one to maintain his private splendour at his country's risk, but remember that such persons injure the public fortune while they squander their own, and that this is a matter of importance, and not for a young man to decide or hastily to take in hand.

Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs First1KGreek (Thucydides. Geschichte des Peloponnesischen Kriegs. Braun, Theodor, translator. Leipzig: Insel-Verlag, 1917.) — 6.12 focus

„Auch muß man bedenken, daß wir uns erst seit kurzem
von der furchtbaren Krankheit und vom Kriege etwas erholt
und an Wohlstand und Bevölkerung wieder zugenommen haben.
Da wäre es doch nicht mehr wie recht, daß uns das selbst
zugute käme und nicht diesen hergelaufenen Geselten, die
andere zu Hilfe rufen, ihnen zu eigenem Vorteil auf fremde
Gefahr was vorlügen und nichts als leere Worte zu bieten
haben und, wenn die Sache gut geht, ihnen mit Undank lohnen,
wenn sie aber fehlschlägt, ihre Freunde mit ins Verderben
ziehen werden. Und wenn ein gewisser Jemand, froh, daß
er zum Feldherrn gewählt, euch zu der Unternehmung rät,
weil er sich selbst Vorteil davon verspricht, wegen seines
Marstalls bewundert werden und seinen zerrütteten Vermögens
verhältnissen durch das Amt etwas wieder aufhelfen möchte,
der überdies für ein solches Amt noch zu jung ist, so gebt
ihm nicht die Gelegenheit, auf die Gefahr des Vaterlandes
mit seiner Person Staat zu machen. Glaubt mir, solche junge
Herren sind nicht nur selbst schlechte Hanshalter, sondern
auch eine Gefahr für das Gemeinwesen. Die Sache aber ist
zu wichtig, um der Leitung und unbesonnenen Behandlung
eines zu jungen Mannes anvertraut zu werden.

Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponèse First1KGreek (Thucydides. Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése, Vol. 1-2. Zévort, Marie Charles, translator. Paris: Charpentier, 1852.) — 6.12 focus

XII. « Rappelons-nous que nous nous relevons à peine, et depuis bien peu de temps, d’une terrible maladie et des maux de la guerre; que nos ressources et notre population ne font que commencer à renaître; qu’il est juste de les employer ici à nos propres besoins au lieu de les consacrer à ces exilés qui mendient nos secours, qui ont intérêt à faire de spécieux mensonges, et qui, s’ils réussissent, au risque d’autrui, sans fournir eux-mêmes autre chose que des paroles, n’auront point une reconnaissance égale au service; tandis que, s’ils échouent, ils entraîneront leurs amis dans leur ruine.

Que si quelqu’un¹, tout glorieux du commandement auquel il a été élu, vous engage à mettre à la voile; si, n’ayant en vue que lui seul, trop jeune d’ailleurs pour commander, il n’aspire qu’à se faire admirer par le luxe de ses chevaux et à exploiter sa charge au profit de son faste; ne lui permettez pas de chercher un éclat tout personnel au péril de la république : songez que de tels hommes compromettent les affaires publiques et se ruinent eux-mêmes; songez que l’entreprise est grande et qu’elle n’est pas de celles dont on peut abandonner à un jeune homme et la décision etl’exécution précipitée.

Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése First1KGreek (Thucydides. Histoire de la Guerre du Péloponnése. Bétant, Élie-Ami, translator. Paris: Librairie de L. Hachette, 1863.) — 6.12 focus

« Ne perdons pas de vue qu’à peine sortis d’une guerre et d’une épidémie terribles, nous commençons seulement à reprendre haleine et à voir s’accroître nos richesses et notre population. Ces ressources , il est juste de les employer pour nous-mêmes, et non pour ces bannis qui mendient des secours. Ils ont leurs raisons pour déguiser adroitement la vérité. Aux autres les périls; pour eux l’enjeu n’est qu’en paroles. En cas de succès, jamais leur reconnaissance n’égalera le service rendu; en cas de malheur, ils entraîneront leurs amis dans la ruine.

« Si certain personnage¹, tout fier d’un commandement qu’il est trop.jeune pour exercer, vous excite à une expédition qui lui permettra de briller par ses chevaux et de faire servir à son faste la dignité dont il est revêtu, ne sacrifiez pas l’utilité publique à l’ostentation d’un particulier. Songez que de tels citoyens sont les fléaux de l’État et les dissipateurs de leur patrimoine. Ne livrez pas une si vaste entreprise à la témérité d’un jeune hommë.

History of the Peloponnesian War First1KGreek (Thucydides, Vol. 1-4. Smith, Charles Foster, translator. London and Cambridge, MA: Heinemann and Harvard University Press, 1919-1923.) — 6.12.1 focus

[1] "And we should remember that we have but lately recovered somewhat from a great pestilence and war, so as to recruit our strength both in money and in men; and these resources it is but right to expend for ourselves here, and not for these fugitives that are begging our aid, whose interest it is to lie cleverly, and, at their neighbour's cost, supplying nothing but words themselves, either, in case of success, to show no proper gratitude, or, in the event of failure, to involve their friends in ruin.

[2] And if there be anyone here who, elated at being chosen to command, exhorts you to sail, considering—especially as he is too young to command—only his own interest, how he may get admiration for his raising of fine horses, and then, because that is very expensive, how he may also get some profit from his command, do not afford this man, at the cost of the state, opportunity to make a personal display, but rather consider that such men damage the public interest while they waste their own property, and that the matter is one of great seriousness, and not such as a youth may decide and rashly take in hand.

History of the Peloponnesian War First1KGreek (Thucydides. The history of the Peloponnesian War, Volume 1-2. Dale, Henry, translator. London: Heinemann and Henry G. Bohn, 1851-1852.) — 6.12.1 focus

[1] "We ought to remember, too, that we have but lately recovered a little from a great pestilence and war, so as to be somewhat recruited both in our property and persons; and that it is but fair for us to expend these here at home, on ourselves, and not on these exiles who are begging your aid; whose interest it is to utter specious falsehoods, and contending at their neighbours' risk, while they themselves only contribute words, either to show no proper gratitude if they succeed, or if in any instance they fail, to ruin their friends along with them.

[2] And if there be any one who is pleased at being appointed to command, and therefore urges you to make the expedition, looking to his own interest alone, (especially as he is yet too young for office,) in order that while he is admired, for his horse-keeping, he may also receive from his appointment some benefit on the score of expense; do not, either, allow that man to exhibit his own individual splendour at the peril of the state; but consider that such men injure the public interests, while they squander their private possessions; and that this is a business of great importance, and not one for a young man to deliberate upon, and rashly to take in hand.

Historia Belli Peloponnesiaci First1KGreek (Historia Belli Peloponnesiaci. Haase, Friedrich, translator. Paris: Firmin Didot, 1869.) — 6.12.1 focus

[1] « Atque meminisse debemus nos nuper admodum e gravi morbo et bello paululum esse recreatos, ita ut et pecuniae vi et hominum numero aucti simus; et aequum esse, haec pro nobis ipsis hic impendi, non autem pro istis viris exsulibus, qui nostrum auxilium implorant, quibus et pulchre mentiri conducit, et aliorum periculo, quum ipsi nihil nisi verba conferant, aut re feliciter gesta gratiam non dignam habere, aut aliqua clade accepta amicos in perniciem eecum trahere.

[2] Quod si quis lubens creatus imperator vos ad hanc navalem expeditionem hortatur, suarum tantum rerum rationen) habens, praesertim si minore adhuc aetate sit quam pro imperio, ut et admirationi sit propter sumptus, quos in alendis equis facit, et propter magnitudinem sumptuum aliquem etiam fructum ex hoc imperio percipiat, ne huic quidem permittatis, ut reipublicae periculo privatim se magnificum ostentet, sed existimate, hujusmodi cives rem quidem publicam laedere, rem vero privatam absumere, et hoc negotium arduum esse, nec de quo adolescens consultare, quodque strenue tractare possit.

La storia di Tucidide First1KGreek (Thucydides. Della storia di Tucidide volgarizzata libri otto. Anonymous translator. Florence: Tipografia Galileiana, 1835.) — 6.12 focus

c« Oltre di che vuoisi rammentare che di recente ci siamo un poco riavuti e dal fiero morbo e dalla guerra , e però siamo cresciuti in denaro e in popolazione ; le quali cose è giusto che si spendano qui per noi, e non per gente bandita chiedente soccorso, gente cui torna in vantaggio il mentir contamente, e che quand’altri è in pericolo va pascendolo sol di parole ; e se ella vince non te ne sa grado condegnamente, e se mai perde avvolge nella sua rovina anche gli amici. E se vi ha chi gongolando per essere scelto a capitano, vi conforta alla spedizione solo perchè mira al proprio vantaggio , tanto più che essendo ancor troppo giovine per il comando vuol farsi ammirare per la sua cavallerizza, e giovarsi della carica per mantenere la sua sontuosità ; non date in mano neppure a costui di che brillare in privato con pericolo della Repubblica. Siate anzi persuasi che si fatti cittadini danneggiano il pubblico, e rifiniscono il suo ; che l’affare di cui si tratta è grande, e non tale da esser consigliato da un giovincello, nè da governarsi cosi spacciatamele.

Notes on the current edition

History of the Peloponnesian War

1. As) Don den Lakedämoniern all vorgeblichen Befreiern der Hellenen.

2. 415
v.
Chr.'

Commentary

Commentary on Thucydides: Book 6 (Thucydides, Book VI. Marchant, Edgar C., editor. London: Macmillan and Company, 1909.) focus

ἀνδρὶ δὲ τυράννῳ —Sicily was intimately acquainted with the ways of despots. Here the frankest description of the Athenian ἀρχή is given, as by Cleon in III. 37 τυραννίδα ἔχετε τὴν ἀρχήν. 2

οὐδὲν ἄλογον ὅ τι ξυμφέρον —this statement could not be made by a modern imperial power, but it is none the less the principle on which under diplomatic disguises modern states frequently act.

οὐδ’ οἰκεῖον —‘there is no tie of blood unless there is eonfidence.’ The Chalcidians of Euboea are kinsmen of Athens, but they are distrusted.

πρὸς ἕκαστα κτλ —‘in each case a hostile or friendly attitude must accord with circumstances.’

καὶ ἠμᾶς —applying the previous doctrine to the present case. ‘Now in our case our interest here is furthered, not by injuring our friends, but if we reduce our enemies to impotence through the strength of our friends.’

τοῦτο applies to what follows.

ἀπιστεῖν —referring back to πιστόν above. ‘You must not distrust us,’ and we will then trust you, and those that we trust we treat as friends. τοὺς ἐκεῖ ξυμμάχους—ἐξηγοῦμαι takes either accus. or dat., but the sudden change from dat. (see crit, note) to accus. ( Χίους) is scarcely probable. αὐτονόμους < ἔχοντες> Stein.

Μηθυμναίους —the only Lesbians who retained their autonomy after Lesbos revolted from Athens in 428.

νεῶν παροκωχῇ —in VII. 57 the Chians are described as οὐχ ὑποτελεῖς φόρου, ναῦς δὲ παρέχοντες, and the Methymnaeans in the same way.

βιαιότερον —sc. ἐξηγούμεθα. Cf. I. 141 αἱ βίαιοι ἐσφοραἰ.

ἐλευθέρως ξυμμαχοῦντας —those who in VII. 57 are called οἱ ἀπὸ ξυμμαχίας αὐτόνομοι, like Corcyra, Zaeynthus, Cephallenia.

πρὸς τὸ λυσιτελοῦν —‘in accordance with our interest and with the fear of Syr. of which we speak’ (c. 83, 4). With δέος ἐς Συρακοσίους cf. Eur. Her. Fur. 66 ἔρωτι σώματ εἰς εὐδαίμονα.

ὑμῶν —referring to all the Sicilian cities, as opposed to Syr.

ἐπὶ τῷ ἡ. ὑπόπτῳ —‘on the ground of the suspicion we excite.’

ξυστήσαντες = ξυμμάχους ποιήσαντες, as in c. 16, 6.

βίᾳ ἢ καὶ κατ’ ἐρημίαν —with ἄρξαι, ‘to acquire empire for themselves over Sicily by force or else through mere lack of resistance.’ Jowett renders ‘first they must unite you in a common suspicion of us, and then, either by force or through your isolation when we have failed and retired, they will dominate Sicily.’ But (1) βίᾳ refers not to ἀπράκτων ἡμῶν ἀπελθόντων, but to ἐπὶ τῷ ἡ. ξυστήσαντες ὑπόπτῳ: they want to unite your forces with their own, only that they may force themselves into the position of head of a Sicilian alliance, which they will turn into empire. (2) Only ἢ καὶ κατ’ ἐρημίαν refers to ἀπράκτων ἡμῶν ἀπελθόντων. If they fail to seeure empire while we are still in Sicily, nevertheless they will secure it when we are no longer here to resist them. (3) That this is so is shown by οὔτε γὰρ κτλ., where the ἰσχὺς τοσαύτη refers to the means by which Syr. would assure herself of empire βίᾳ, and ὴμῶν μὴ παρόντων means that Syr. would turn against the Siceliots when the Athenians were gone, and would acquire empire κατ’ ἐρημίαν, through laek of resistance. Thus (4) there is no reference to a struggle with the Siceliots in βίᾳ, but only to the struggle between a Sicilian confederation and Athens, in the course of whieh Syr. might assure herself of empire.

κατ’ ἐρημίαν —se. τῶν κωλυσόντων (Stahl).

Thucydides History of the Peloponnesian War 6.12

Adolf Wahrmund (Translator)

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